A neat bit of kit

It's somewhat obvious that your "beef", G.R.F is with the adhesive, not progrip. Progrip is very good at what its meant to do, stop you from slipping all over the shop. You just haven't found the right glue yet. You can't right it off as crap because you failed to stick it on properly. Mine has stayed on fine and is showing no signs of coming off in the near future.

Dinghy sailing lurking in the 80's, eh? I have to words for you, ONE DESIGN. Countless boats that are sailed today that were designed decades ago and there for, as a one design boat, cannot just throw on all the latets bits and pieces. Development classes (12 ft skiff, cherub, 18ft skiff ect) are leading the way in dinghy world. The technology is there and is being used. Part of the reason why dinghy sailing is "behind" windsurfing is that a boat is an awful lot more complex to manufacture that bloody foam board and a stick.

"Windsurfers had carbon masts decades ago!"

 Dinghy masts take use a lot more carbon and have to be stronger in the right places. Lots more R&D (*cough*selden*cough*) has to go into making a dinghy mast than windsurf mast. This also makes them much more expensive, and would have been even more expensive when they were first being made.

This isn't the only example/reason why dinghy's are "behind" windsurfers, but its the principle I'm trying to get across. We're not behind in technology, it just takes longer for it to take hold in the dinghy world due to one design and many other reasons. As more classes come onto the scene, others will disappear and the technology will come and go with it.

Originally posted by Ross It's somewhat obvious that your "beef", G.R.F is with the adhesive, not progrip. Progrip is very good at what its meant to do, stop you from slipping all over the shop. You just haven't found the right glue yet. You can't right it off as crap because you failed to stick it on properly. Mine has stayed on fine and is showing no signs of coming off in the near future. Dinghy sailing lurking in the 80's, eh? I have to words for you, ONE DESIGN. Countless boats that are sailed today that were designed decades ago and there for, as a one design boat, cannot just throw on all the latets bits and pieces. Development classes (12 ft skiff, cherub, 18ft skiff ect) are leading the way in dinghy world. The technology is there and is being used. Part of the reason why dinghy sailing is "behind" windsurfing is that a boat is an awful lot more complex to manufacture that bloody foam board and a stick. "Windsurfers had carbon masts decades ago!"  Dinghy masts take use a lot more carbon and have to be stronger in the right places. Lots more R&D (*cough*selden*cough*) has to go into making a dinghy mast than windsurf mast. This also makes them much more expensive, and would have been even more expensive when they were first being made. This isn't the only example/reason why dinghy's are "behind" windsurfers, but its the principle I'm trying to get across. We're not behind in technology, it just takes longer for it to take hold in the dinghy world due to one design and many other reasons. As more classes come onto the scene, others will disappear and the technology will come and go with it.

a good point well made now G.R.F, can you see why people get pi**ed off at you and get on the defensive. Yes some of the points you've made are valid but you've taken them out of context. Yes windsurfing is more advanced in some respects but as Ross said a windsurf board is a lot less complex than the hull of a boat. As well as this the stresses on a hull are going to be much larger than that of a windsurfer not to metion when you start put 100's of pounds of pressure directly onto the boat . So it is no surprise that dinghies are developing slower than windsurfers. And i havn't begun to talk about the cost difference etc

Originally posted by Ross I think progrip was developed by windsurfers, or it might have been surfers...I cant remember now. I'll dig up the topic.

Its actually a sheet of "multi density EVA", usually used for orthopaedic moulding.

It's trade name is "Lunasoft", the link below sells it at approx. half the price of any dinghy shop, I found out as when I ordered some from LDC they had left the Lunasoft sticker on the back!

http://www.algeos.com/acatalog/Lunasoft_SL___LARGE_Sheets.ht ml

Originally posted by Matt Jackson I'd be really annoyed If I'd spent a load of money on some over-marketted product only to find I have to cut a bit off ..

Well, when I started this thread, it was about what I percieved to be a
really nice item, well presented, well sold and explained by the sales guy
and does exactly what it says on the tin.

That immediately gets trashed by some fine contributors to this "forum of
fools" as most folk call it. Then, in passing I casually remark about the
other purchase I made that day, of what is at best a makeshift and mend
sort of application that is most definitely a hangover from the past but
has no competing alternative..

The "fools" then fly to its defence, lauding it as if their very life depends
on its continued existence..

There's no helping you lot.

Pro Grip is crap, get over it, it doesn't even have any surface structure, so
when wet, a surface water film can still be present, not that any of you lot
would ever consider riding a boat barefoot, but I bet there are certain sole
structures that will slip on that surface. If that is you gan get it to stick
long enough.

Not that any of this is a big deal, but it does so illustrate the mental
capacity of the average dinghy sailor and how easy it is to sell them
something sub standard.. which is a pity.

When I know some sailors are really bright, I guess they just dont post on
forums..

Originally posted by Chris Noble On another note any one out there wanna lend a 500 for the weekend so we can see just what an incredible sailor this guy is. Must be a hero for the musto to be a sub standard product to his standards

Quite where you got the idea that the RS500 is in some way in my mind
superior to a Musto Skiff I've no idea. The two boats although similar in
some respects (they're both tippy, over canvassed and use the same
spinnaker hoist/drop system)there the similarity ends.

The Musto I had, it later transipred was a production prototype, the sail
was by North and didn't fit properly, the rudder was a fixed blade that
was contained by a fixed glass housing that frequently jammed as did
the main plate. Not a brilliant combination for a beginner sailor (At the
time I must confess to thinking "dinghy sailing - how difficult can it be?")
So, it was actually sub standard in the sense that later production boats
were and are much much better and I'm still looking forward to the day
when I feel confident enough to make the return. However its still a way
off and there is lots more to learn than I'd ever anticipated.

But you have to realise I come from a background of consumer products
to other markets, and compared to them, everything I'm saying is true. It
might not seem that way to y'all and given even RS have only just started
building offshore, where sadly most retail quality products emanate these
days.

Back to the pro grip thing, here's another parallel, look at traction for
surfboards, look at the wide variety, it uses way superior adhesive, is die
cut with attractive shapes and sticks to surf boards like - well like sticky
stuff should.

So - like I said - its dark ages stuff - pity no-ones bought it up to date,
maybe there'll be some innovation around the corner, but it's well
overdue.

As for the RS500? Its cheap, so you kind of expect a bit of a basic
equipment. My current beef with them? Slot flushers, I've mentioned it
already to them I'm on my third and about to order my fourth in one
season, we were sailing like slugs last night and its all down to a dodgy
slot flusher. (Slot flushers have more negative effect than poorly rigged
sails imho) ANd what are they using?

The same HAWK slot gasket windsurfers stopped using in the mid 80's -
sorry but its fact, there have been three generations of slot gasket fitted
to boards since a dubious affair with Hawk on Mistral SST's.

Time they woke up.