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49erGBR735HSC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 9:44pm

Back on topic..........

Football teams

I-14- definately Chelsea due to the changing nature of the boat, its successfulness and the cheque-book nature of the class (think that's been covered before)

Laser 5000- Blackburn Rovers, can mix it with the best, play rough, been up and down over the years, had major success in the early 90s and seriously underated.

49er- Glasgow Rangers, constantly successful and will always be successful in the future and as the chants go at Ibrox (Rangers stadium), "Simply the Best"

505- Celtic football club, great history and also very succesful......... (and I know it will annoy lozza when he reads this post )

Dennis Watson 49er GBR735
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allanorton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 9:49pm

Originally posted by Prince Buster

yeah thats the thing......pro cycling, although incredible physically challenging, does not come near the tactical and strategic nature of sailing.  I do both long distance cycling and downhill mountain biking, and sailing and i have to say that sailing is the most allround challenging sport in all aspects together.   Remeber FITNESS is defined as: "the complete state of physical, social and mental well-being."  So its not just brute force and aerobic capactiy that makes one person fitter than another.

If you think it's always the fittest/strongest competitors that win cycling races or boxing matches etc. then look again.  They're both highly tactical & require great organisation, team work, planning, etc to suceed.  I would say that road cycling is easily as tactical if not more so than sailing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 10:28pm
yeah i know - i didnt mean that statement to be so strong.  BUT being a road cyclist and sailor myself i can confidently say that there is nowhere near as much complicated tactics and strategy involved.  Theres a bit yes but not nearly as much as in a sailing race.  The kind of things that go through my mind in a long distance cycling race are: have i got enough energy to get me to the finish, when should i break away from the group, can i get a leadout from anyone?, who's sprinting away and will i be able to pull them back, must crash! lol    Hardly THAT complicated.  I can't speak for boxing as ive never done it but i do think that sailing combines all aspects of a challenging sport and, therefore, is the BEST sport
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Prince Buster

yeah thats the thing......pro cycling, although incredible physically challenging, does not come near the tactical and strategic nature of sailing.  I do both long distance cycling and downhill mountain biking, and sailing and i have to say that sailing is the most allround challenging sport in all aspects together.   Remeber FITNESS is defined as: "the complete state of physical, social and mental well-being."  So its not just brute force and aerobic capactiy that makes one person fitter than another.

If you think it's always the fittest/strongest competitors that win cycling races or boxing matches etc. then look again.  They're both highly tactical & require great organisation, team work, planning, etc to suceed.  I would say that road cycling is easily as tactical if not more so than sailing.



Id definanatly agree with that. Ive done a lot of marathon kayaking and for a sport which from the outside apears to be 'sit in a boat and spin your arms for a few hours' its more tactical than you'd believe.
Ive raced against people far far fitter than me and won just on experiance.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 06 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Isis

Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Prince Buster

yeah thats the thing......pro cycling, although incredible physically challenging, does not come near the tactical and strategic nature of sailing.  I do both long distance cycling and downhill mountain biking, and sailing and i have to say that sailing is the most allround challenging sport in all aspects together.   Remeber FITNESS is defined as: "the complete state of physical, social and mental well-being."  So its not just brute force and aerobic capactiy that makes one person fitter than another.

If you think it's always the fittest/strongest competitors that win cycling races or boxing matches etc. then look again.  They're both highly tactical & require great organisation, team work, planning, etc to suceed.  I would say that road cycling is easily as tactical if not more so than sailing.



Id definanatly agree with that. Ive done a lot of marathon kayaking and for a sport which from the outside apears to be 'sit in a boat and spin your arms for a few hours' its more tactical than you'd believe.
Ive raced against people far far fitter than me and won just on experiance.

From what I imagine with kayaking, tactical knowledge focuses mainly upon tidal flow and currents. That is one part of sailing also but wind strategy is another factor which you have to consider more with sailing.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 12:21am
Originally posted by 49erGBR735HSC

Originally posted by Isis

Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Prince Buster

yeah thats the thing......pro cycling, although incredible physically challenging, does not come near the tactical and strategic nature of sailing.  I do both long distance cycling and downhill mountain biking, and sailing and i have to say that sailing is the most allround challenging sport in all aspects together.   Remeber FITNESS is defined as: "the complete state of physical, social and mental well-being."  So its not just brute force and aerobic capactiy that makes one person fitter than another.

If you think it's always the fittest/strongest competitors that win cycling races or boxing matches etc. then look again.  They're both highly tactical & require great organisation, team work, planning, etc to suceed.  I would say that road cycling is easily as tactical if not more so than sailing.



Id definanatly agree with that. Ive done a lot of marathon kayaking and for a sport which from the outside apears to be 'sit in a boat and spin your arms for a few hours' its more tactical than you'd believe.
Ive raced against people far far fitter than me and won just on experiance.

From what I imagine with kayaking, tactical knowledge focuses mainly upon tidal flow and currents. That is one part of sailing also but wind strategy is another factor which you have to consider more with sailing.



Currents apply quite a bit though not tides as its imposible to race anywhere with regular waves.
Its based much more around the kind of racing being talked about earlier with road cyclists: stick with this wash? make a dive for the next group? get free water so you can get out and sprint like  around the next lock? are they about to sprint?

I dont think its as tactical as sailing but similar sports are definantly underated in the amount of tactics involved.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 8:07am

Originally posted by Prince Buster

being a road cyclist and sailor myself i can confidently say that there is nowhere near as much complicated tactics and strategy involved

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, my guess is that you may have done a few one day, 80 mile races, not a three week tour with mountain stages, flat stages, time trials, team time trials etc., do you go for stage wins, general classification, points jersey, or king of the mountains?  As part of a team with climbers, sprinters, domestiques, time trial specialists, leadout men & a team leader, then it gets a whole lot more tactical!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 9:34am
Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Prince Buster

being a road cyclist and sailor myself i can confidently say that there is nowhere near as much complicated tactics and strategy involved

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, my guess is that you may have done a few one day, 80 mile races, not a three week tour with mountain stages, flat stages, time trials, team time trials etc., do you go for stage wins, general classification, points jersey, or king of the mountains?  As part of a team with climbers, sprinters, domestiques, time trial specialists, leadout men & a team leader, then it gets a whole lot more tactical!



no you're not wrong i'm not part of a professional team.  And i have to do all those jobs....no nice domestiques help me up a hill (no not a mountain they dont have them in England) so i have to get leadouts from other riders who dont particularly want to give me a leadout making it a lot harder to actually get one.  And no....no pro climbers so that adds the aspect of whether i should attack on the flats to get a good lead becuase im a weak climber, or whether im going to try and stick with someone i know can help me up the hill...etc. I dont do multi-stage 30-day races like the tour de france and giro d'italia but i do race in stages over about 3 days and that is enough to see how hard it is to know what to do and when on the track.  Im only speaking here from my level in both sports and i dont doubt that when you get to the dizzy heights of professional cycling it all gets a lot more difficult and much more tactical BUT so does every sport - including sailing - but at the standards im at now in both sports i can say that i find sailing more strategically and tactically orientated.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 49erGBR735HSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by allanorton

Originally posted by Prince Buster

being a road cyclist and sailor myself i can confidently say that there is nowhere near as much complicated tactics and strategy involved

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, my guess is that you may have done a few one day, 80 mile races, not a three week tour with mountain stages, flat stages, time trials, team time trials etc., do you go for stage wins, general classification, points jersey, or king of the mountains?  As part of a team with climbers, sprinters, domestiques, time trial specialists, leadout men & a team leader, then it gets a whole lot more tactical!

I reckon that taking part in the Volvo Ocean Race would be immensely more challenging than a 3 week cycling trial, at least with the cycling the competitors get some significant rest compared to the guys out on the VO70s. The mental strains upon the sailors are much higher, lack of sleep with the constant thought in the back of their mind that one significant mistake or gear failure would mean the possible loss of their lifes. I'm not saying that cycling is not a highly challenging sport but when you compare the top levels of each sport, sailing, in my opinion is definately more challenging as there are a lot more variables which are outside your own control. If you injure yourself on a bike, you can pull over to the side of the road and pull out of the race, the Southern Ocean doesn't give you that option.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 06 at 1:10pm
I completely agree with you Dennis that the Volvo Ocean Race would be way more challenging than a 3-week cycle tour but not for the reason of significant rest periods. I reckon when you do a BIG sailing event over about a week your mind gets so involved in thinking about sailing that you cant actually sleep at all in the nights because your mind is constantly saying to you: who's gonna steer the boat if you're sleeping, you're gonna crash, you've got to race!!!!!.  Imagine that over a three-week tour when you are cycling all day, killing your body with exertion, and constantly thinking about the race.   From talking to some people who have done BIG cycle races and from my own experience, those guys doing the Tour de France hardly get any sleep at all!!!  From reading Lance Armstrong's autobiography he says that the only comfort lying awake in bed at night is that you know everybody else is in exactly the same position.
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