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That Extra 2-3%

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JohnJack View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by jeffers

This is one of the reason why your tacking, gybing and mark rounding manoeuvers need to be done automatically. So you can get your head out of the boat and see what is going on around you. Getting a feel for the wind and how the boats reacts is the next step. Once you can do all of that you can concentrate on the extra bit that will lift you above the competition. There are a lot of mid-fleet people who have some serious boat speed in a straight line but their manoeuvering and tactical decisions let them down badly.

Its like driving a car, there is a certain amount of passive concentration going on. 
When you learn to drive there seems to be an awful lot going on, and the first time you get up to 60mph on an A road it feels really fast. Now doing 70mph on a motorway is a little...... meh if you know what I mean......
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 11:46am
Originally posted by zippyRN


 ' in the groove'  or a performance with 'sparkle'   it;s intangible  that comes after you have reached unconscious competence ...   some people never reach that level of  performance they can go through the motions  technically  well but they just don;t seem ot  m get to the bit  where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts ...  It happens in the perfomance of any skill  whether that;s driving, sailing ,  dancing  or whatever... 
It's what  gets the 'advanced' driver  his/her Class 1 / RoSPA  gold ,  it;s what gets the sailor  on the podium / that squad place; It's what get's the dancer the contract or the 'vocational school' place ... 


We used to refer to it as being 'In the Zone', Not so sure I'd apply it to advanced driving, more likely to get you banned in a car, it's when everything comes as you anticipate it should, you're on a performance 'high' wether adrenaline or endorphin generated, only time I could artificially induce it would be by getting angry, either at myself for a foolish error or by someone infringing my progress, but once you get in it, you're superhuman, wish I could do it these days. An extreme example coming round the bottom mark 30th on the last beat and still finishing first, can remember it to this day and every shift on Derwent reservoir, the lake district one, I'd been knocked off at the gybe mark and was mad as hell..

There is absolutely not a snowballs chance in hell of me ever getting 'In the Zone' in a dinghy, but I can see guys who do, remember that quote from Ainslie about it being best not to make him mad...

Edited by iGRF - 13 Feb 17 at 11:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 11:33am
Originally posted by JohnJack

This is actually a really interesting thread. 
Its the difference between the top half dozen at a Nationals who turn up with a serious prospect of winning and then the other fifty odd who have various other targets.
It gets really interesting when you get one of the top guys have a bad gybe or something that puts them upside down and once the right way up again they are behind the mid fleet who are squabbling their way around the coarse, needlessly covering each other and pushing high on reaches. I am always amazed with the speed in which they carve through the melee and end up challenging back up the front again. 
Having had the pleasure of sailing with one of the pro jockeys a few years ago, what got me was the step up in intensity and feel they have for the boat as well as the situational awareness ALL the time, yet they make it look so easy. I felt like a complete bumbling fool/fish out of water (luckily the Pro I was sailing with is a very pleasant fellow and didn't get too annoyed, probably more entertained by my complete uselessness in the front).
Though mentally exhausting it was a great experience and I am truly thankful for it.


This is one of the reason why your tacking, gybing and mark rounding manoeuvers need to be done automatically. So you can get your head out of the boat and see what is going on around you. Getting a feel for the wind and how the boats reacts is the next step. Once you can do all of that you can concentrate on the extra bit that will lift you above the competition. There are a lot of mid-fleet people who have some serious boat speed in a straight line but their manoeuvering and tactical decisions let them down badly.
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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 17 at 9:54am
This is actually a really interesting thread. 
Its the difference between the top half dozen at a Nationals who turn up with a serious prospect of winning and then the other fifty odd who have various other targets.
It gets really interesting when you get one of the top guys have a bad gybe or something that puts them upside down and once the right way up again they are behind the mid fleet who are squabbling their way around the coarse, needlessly covering each other and pushing high on reaches. I am always amazed with the speed in which they carve through the melee and end up challenging back up the front again. 
Having had the pleasure of sailing with one of the pro jockeys a few years ago, what got me was the step up in intensity and feel they have for the boat as well as the situational awareness ALL the time, yet they make it look so easy. I felt like a complete bumbling fool/fish out of water (luckily the Pro I was sailing with is a very pleasant fellow and didn't get too annoyed, probably more entertained by my complete uselessness in the front).
Though mentally exhausting it was a great experience and I am truly thankful for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Oinks

There's that thing about "being in the groove",when everything rather mystically all suddenly comes together. I've had that, but can't for the life of me quantitatively or qualitatively ascertain what it was so I could reproduce it on a regular basis!

 that's the problem ...  ' in the groove'  or a performance with 'sparkle'   it;s intangible  that comes after you have reached unconscious competence ...   some people never reach that level of  performance they can go through the motions  technically  well but they just don;t seem ot  m get to the bit  where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts ... 

 It happens in the perfomance of any skill  whether that;s driving, sailing ,  dancing  or whatever... 

It's what  gets the 'advanced' driver  his/her Class 1 / RoSPA  gold ,  it;s what gets the sailor  on the podium / that squad place; It's what get's the dancer the contract or the 'vocational school' place ... 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 17 at 12:49pm
Self belief is certainly true, and my open meeting results have always been better than my Nationals, mainly because I believe I'm good on small water and crap on the sea.

The upwind downwind thing. Upwind, the speeds are similar, but direction is everything. Downwind, especially in a boat like the 300, speed is going to really count. In a boat where the difference between flat out and quite competent is smaller, then I suspect tactical considerations and mark positioning will be relatively more important.

This is all 20% stuff, though, not 2%.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Steve411

There's no silver bullet - it's about making small gains in lots of areas. 

Training goes without saying - I typically train 2 or 3 times as much as I race. General time on the water helps but targeted training is so much more efficient. Be brutally honest with yourself about strengths and weakness - upwind in waves, upwind in light winds in a slop, downwind in waves, straightline speed etc. There will be up to 20 of these. Mark yourself out of 10 (honestly) and work on anything less than a 7 or 8. There will be non-racing bits as well on this list too - understanding tidal flows at the venue, fitness etc. Mark yourself on these too. I used to make a note of every mistake I'd made in a race (bad start, overstanding the windward mark, missing a shift etc). It's a bit nerdy but it helps highlight where you need to improve.

Whenever I've been to class training it seems most of the emphasis is on tacking and gybing. That's fine and they need to be done efficiently - but really how often do you tack and gybe in a race - say, 4 tacks a beat and one gybe per lap (unless in an asymmetric)? My view is to concentrate much more on straightline speed - upwind and down. If you can eke out a few boatlengths upwind you'll be a tactical wizard. It can be a bit boring sometimes just sailing upwind concentrating on speed and heeling angle, but it helps. For that reason, I mostly do a maximum of an hour's training at a time before stopping for a break (coming in for a cup of tea or stopping on the water for 5 minutes) to ward off boredom.

I think downwind speed is more important than upwind speed. All the top guys are searingly quick downwind. Think about it. In most hiking boats it's impossible to gain more than a fraction of a knot upwind in most conditions. Downwind you can double your speed by getting on waves properly. Practise! You will still need to be in the top 10% at the first mark though.

Fitness is paramount too. A few years ago I was out of work for a few months. In between job hunting I spent a lot of time in the gym and out running. I thought it would make a slight difference to my speed. It actually made a massive difference - not necessarily on the first lap of a race when everyone's still sitting out hard, but on subsequent laps when fatigue starts to set in. I mostly do a lot of running and leg exercises.

Finally, even at this relatively bottom end of the sport, psychology is more important than most people realise. I like to be comfortable in new surroundings. If I haven't been to a venue before, and there isn't a pre-Nationals event there, I try and spend half a day sometime ahead of the regatta just wandering round, getting my bearing etc. I just find it helps me. I think this also why you find people who do really well at open meetings but often fail to deliver at Nationals. Too much personalised pressure, feeling uncomfortable in new surroundings? If you've done the preparation - training, fitness, tides etc you'll feel confident and that's a tremendous help. You don't need to tell anyone but if you know you're the one who's put the hours in over the winter when you'd have preferred not to go out, got up early to go to the gym etc, you'll have an inner smugness (sorry, confidence) that is difficult to match.

I've found all of the above has worked for me. Others no doubt have different approaches which are just as valid if not more so, but I think the more you think about your sailing the more you'll understand the changes you need to make.

This great post from Steve helped refine my thoughts on the subject. So I'll add a view looking at what he says here as one of his competitors. It happens that I came across a report from the last time I beat Steve at a meaningful event back in 2007 (even then it went to winner of the last race otherwise it was the same score). The report showed that we both made boat handling errors and tactical errors. That was before Steve had the period in which he was able to practice a lot...and just before my second child arrived which reduced my practice time.

So what 1:

At that point I would say that Steve did need to have on emphasis on tacking and gybing in his training, but afterwards he did not. And that conversely I have not got back to the point where I could afford to concentrate on long speed runs because my boat handling hasn't been good enough.

So what 2:

It shows that for the final 2-3% you might need to change your focus in training and process from what made you as good as you are, to what will make you as good as you can be.

As an example:

 I am a relatively conservative tactical sailor...and have got towards the front of a couple of fleets. Our best result was a second in a regatta when we had a speed advantage that meant we needed to be no more than conservative in our tactics.

But when I don't enjoy that advantage I probably need to have (build) the confidence to fight for the very best spot on the line. To take bolder tactical decisions, and to have the confidence to bank (and thus minimise) a loss knowing that I had the boat speed to get it back.

It's quite a hard step to take!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 7:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 6:35pm

'Good boatspeed' makes all your tactical decisions look good or better..... well broadly 'yes' of course.

But very often I've seen 'good boatspeed' simply get people to that wrong place on the course but just that little bit quicker than they might have done previously ;-) 

You need both elements to be helping you along.  Great boatspeed cannot completely make up for poor judgement nor can good judgement completely negate the need for good boatspeed ... and there are other factors as well.   But that is the point - and what the underlying essence of sail racing is really about - it is not straightforward and maybe the reason why quite a few are hooked for life.    

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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 17 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by iGRF

It's tricky this without screwing my own head, which I try to keep full of self belief, which is what you actually need above all to achieve that extra 1-2% to keep your nose ahead of all the others that are experts already, I remember full well what else it takes and can honestly say I have neither the desire or probably the vitality left to endure. The hours in the gym, the miles pounding the pavements, not to mention the other hours sail training.

Then what do you have, say you get to be a full on championship winning helm, capable of Olympic performance, what does that mean? It means a totally different approach to something that was once fun it gets to a point that you almost fear taking part in case you lose, rather than the jolly expectation of the line up and the hope you get a bit of luck and are first out of the favoured end into a knock and manage to stay in synch with every shift the entire race.

So, no I'm happy to be a loser more often than I win, I actually enjoy the fact that I'm a hopeless boat handler and bumble about getting tangled up with the damn ropes and wiggle stick and let bloody jammy youf through at the last leg of a race I've lead almost to the last leg, I love to moan about the bandits beating me from a lap or two behind (whilst secretly knowing I'm not really sailing my own craft to its full potential) and there is one fact that is as true now as it was back in the day, you meet and get to know and be a far better person the nearer the back of any given fleet you dwell, and that is a fact.

Has someone hacked iGRF's account?
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