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What gives a boat 'height'?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What gives a boat 'height'?
    Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

so it's possible that you are
thinking, keep the main pinned in to keep the crew on the
wire and stalling everything and ending up dropping off
to leeward. Ease the sheet slightly, go a bit faster, get
flow on the foils and then squeeze back up a bit. But
like you said without see things it's a difficult
call.


You could be onto something here. In my head our
advantage over the L2K's is the trapeze. Perhaps in that
particular breeze we should have been hiking it with the
2000s. Chances are I was, as you say, over cranking the
main in an effort to keep her out on the wire. That might
explain why we're not too bad in the light stuff compared
to the 2000s.

Perhaps I need to alter my mindset so that we're hiking
until the boom is some way off the center line and then
get her out on the wire.

She'll enjoy that




P.S. Odd how the Google Chrome browser keeps the line
length short

Edited by ellistine
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Isis



I dissagree with Mr Sparrow about the twist. A lack of height is usualy a sign of too much twist. The upper telltail on the main leach should be streaming about 70-80% of the time depending on the boat and conditions. Trimming for max speed does not give you your best VMG upwind.

If the crew is on the wire then I assume you are fairly powered up - were you dumping power at all? (easing the sheet)


Yes but I was making a big guess on limited info. And just suggesting a little more twist, still keeping a little hook so you can point. It sounded like the top was over hooking and stalling from the original post. But if the wind strength is dropping you have the impression that the crew should be on the wire from earlier sailing out, so it's possible that you are thinking, keep the main pinned in to keep the crew on the wire and stalling everything and ending up dropping off to leeward. Ease the sheet slightly, go a bit faster, get flow on the foils and then squeeze back up a bit. But like you said without see things it's a difficult call.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Isis


If the crew is on the wire then I assume you are fairly
powered up - were you dumping power at all? (easing the
sheet)

Just the occasional release in some of the gusts to keep
the boat flat.

Unfortunately no other Vagos to play with but the Laser
2000's were long gone. We we're even struggling to stay
ahead of a single handed 2k.

In light airs we're not too bad at all.

I might see if I can borrow a waterproof camera and mount
it on the thwart.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Isis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 1:56pm
The leach line you refer to on the jib should be as loose as possible while preventing leach flutter. On a well made new sail you shouldnt need to touch it.

A lack of height could be any number of things and its impossible to give a decent answer without seeing the boat on the water. That not being possible here the next best option is to try and get some sail trim shots for us (Camera on the centreline looking up at the sails)

You said you are down on height but you havent said anything about speed.. are there any other vagos to compare against?

I dissagree with Mr Sparrow about the twist. A lack of height is usualy a sign of too much twist. The upper telltail on the main leach should be streaming about 70-80% of the time depending on the boat and conditions. Trimming for max speed does not give you your best VMG upwind.

If the crew is on the wire then I assume you are fairly powered up - were you dumping power at all? (easing the sheet)


Edited by Isis
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 1:08pm
I've always been a bit unsure about jib sheet tension. I
remember we did a Vago training weekend with Mark Askwith
and he has us sheeting the jib in tighter than we ever had
before. The bottom of the jib goes completely flat. If we
let the jib sheet out an inch and steer to the telltales we
go a lot faster (sometimes to the point where the hull
starts to hum) but also a lot lower. Perhaps I should be
looking at the slot shape. There is a leach tensioner on
the back of the jib but we've never touched it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 12:58pm

oversheeting the jib can cause the boat not to point, you need to have a decent slot shape between the main and jib.


Dan

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Easing off the sheet tension a little
sounds a reasonable idea then, I take it it wasn't blowing
hard when you weren't pointing?

It was enough for the crew to be out on the wire but with
the boom still in on the center line.

The wind was dropping throughout the race. The reach to the
race course was a right blast!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 12:09pm
Easing off the sheet tension a little sounds a reasonable idea then, I take it it wasn't blowing hard when you weren't pointing?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

The angle of the burgee when
sailing upwind will vary depending on how windy it is ...
the more wind there is the more it will run down the
centreline.


I would never look at a burgee upwind unless I am
bobbing around on a gravel pit in no wind trying to work
out what is going on ...


We sailed last night without the burgee for the first time.
It's like a little friend was missing
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ellistine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 09 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Jack Sparrow

Sounds to me like you have been
sailing in conditions with a bit of wind shear. And you
need to sail with a little more twist. Let the kicker off
and the top have of the sail won't stall so much. Is the
main top leach tell tail streaming?

I'm pretty sure they we're streaming. I've been controlling
the leach tension with main rather than kicker when the
boom's been on the center line. Perhaps I've been cranking
it in too tight?
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