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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: National 12?
    Posted: 31 Oct 08 at 8:49pm

I love the idea of a N12, but was so disappointed with the reality that I drove across Europe to buy a NS14 instead.  I agree with Rick, the N12 rig is outdateddue to rules that are far too restrictive for a supposed development class. 

It is odd that there is no hiking assy development class.
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Posts: 853 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 08 at 8:52pm
no point, you will have to have so many rules restricting width that you could never get the sail area to go faster, B14 basically there is not a huge ammount you could do to improve them except for sock drop and maybe tfoil rudder and carbon wings
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Enterprising View Drop Down
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Posts: 42 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Enterprising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 08 at 9:03pm

think of the variety of hull designs as an equaliser. if you sea sail, feel foolish, if you are lighter and work in land you need to be a paradigm, if you are overweight you have a "big issue" and if you want to nark them all in any conditions you Bounce in a bouncer, double floor a 30 yr old boat, and whup their arses.

N12s have not only the rig to suit you but the hull too.

it is the only class that designs a high wind boat (the street legal) that needs all the weight it can in a blow and will nuke anything, but needs an on board weight of 4.5 stone to go in light winds. how do you get your action man to hike out????
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 08 at 10:06pm

Don't get me wrong a new N12 is a high quality high tech bit of kit.

Quality carbon widgets etc but the sail plan is very dated ...

 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 08 at 11:27pm
Well so far I've heard nothing that would put me off one. I like
Enterprising's view on the variety of hull shapes to counter my own
worry's.

Rick, sorry I don't mean to pick on your views but why do you think the
sail plan is outdated. Whilst the class rule restrictions don't allow for the
like of a square top main, what is it that you look at and think.... that's a
bit old school for my liking?
I only ask because looking at pics (which look pretty good) and looking
into the class rules, the sails look pretty good.
Please don't think of me as pedantic, merely very inquisitive.

And Chew My RS, what was it you were so disapointed about? I'm looking
at spending a considerable amount of money, if there were any time for
you to air views, now is certainly that time.


Doug

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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Posts: 790 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 08 at 5:09am

Partly its a rules thing and partly a size thing, there's nothing wrong with the quality.  The hulls are good, but I'd prefer rig rules that didn't force the solution on me in terms of best within the rules rather than best aerodynamic solution.  Also 12ft is just too short to carry weight well IMHO (not just total weight, but helm/crew split).

Hollandsd - I don't understand your point.
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 08 at 9:28am

If you want one get one; they are a nice boat.

I just think the NS14 shows the way for the class ...
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Ross View Drop Down
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Posts: 1163 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ross Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 08 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by hollandsd

no point, you will have to have so many rules restricting width that you could never get the sail area to go faster, B14 basically there is not a huge ammount you could do to improve them except for sock drop and maybe tfoil rudder and carbon wings


Thats like saying theres no point in 14s, 12s and Cherubs because theres the 800, 49er, 5K etc.
Ross
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hollandsd View Drop Down
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Posts: 853 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 08 at 5:01pm

thats not what i meant, think, how can you improve a hiking boat, there is a limit to what you can do before it gets silly, there is so much more you can do with trap boats, with hiking boats you have the problem of weight and theres no way round it.

There is a point In 14's 12's and dare i say it cherubs as they will develop over the years and have SMOD's based on them in the future.
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andymck View Drop Down
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Posts: 397 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 08 at 8:20pm
The small asymmetric kite was tried in the early 90's, and was not originally
used to exploit the single jib rule, this was done later with the small
mainsail final chapter. I remember seeing it at the Exmouth nationals which
Must have been 93/4, interestingly I was standing next Spud Rowsell and
Phil Morrison at the time. I believe we tried the first 200's about 18 months
later, when we tried them for team racing. I remember at the time thinking
the idea seemed familiar, especially that running system they tried early on.

Andy

Edited by andymck
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