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Personal Handicap

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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Personal Handicap
    Posted: 29 May 07 at 8:25pm

why reward bad sailing?

Best improver and points for turning up, racing regularily etc are nice things as an alternative, but all the effort and hot air of personal handicap schemes  could be better put into encouraging one design racing and giving people real advice on how to get better.

Probably one of the differences between dinghies and yachts is you are more likely to get a ride on a good yacht while it's being sailed to perfection than a dinghy of course, but videos and lectures from sail makers etc are all a better use of human energy than personal handicaps.

 

best left to golfers and other forms of brain-stem death

 

 ( I have had the annoyance of seeing poorly sailed keel boats 'becoming competitive' under two systems while good teams don't bother- also virtual 'personal' handicaps on schemes like CYCA for one-offs/otherwise dog-boats doing the sport no favours)



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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 07 at 3:24pm
Yep, I remember Ostrobogolous well. I had to write a large suite of custom Excel Macros to deal with it when we used it at our club.

As far as the top third of the fleet is concerned you can sum it up as "Don't bother to turn up for the first quarter of the series, because the results mean virtually nothing, but make damn sure you turn up and do well in the last two races."


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ch505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 07 at 1:35pm

Does anyone remember the Ostrabogylus scoring system?  Think that Bryan Willis came up with it originally....or maybe he just introduced it to me.

That was a great way of running a series, and rewarding both consistency and improvement through a series (you can't run a single race on it though).

All less serious than straightforward PY's, and certainly inclusive to the whole fleet for the series.

If I remember correctly, finishing positions are calculated on the standard PY for each race.  However the series results are based on the "points" that you score.

Points awarded for the following reasons:

1 - starting a race

1 - finishing a race

1 - for beating a boat that is in front of you on the overall standings (or within 3 points behind you)

1 - for winning a race on the water

Think this is right, but can't remember - anyone got a better memory than me? 

Chas



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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 11:36pm

The commitee at hunts are looking at the handicap issues, and this is one of the options being looked at. I was just asked to put forward a suggestion of how a personal handicap system might be implemented, which has now been done, if it gets tried, and seems to work in the long term, I will let you all know what we did, still al very much in the discussion stage.

 

Andy

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Have a look at this page.

http://www.stonesc.co.uk/SSC_handicap.html

Stone SC have the Phantom on 994.

Crikey, I would like that L2 handicap please. Think a few members would walk out of the club though.....Forgive my relative inexperience but How do they arrive at those figures??

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Have a look at this page.

http://www.stonesc.co.uk/SSC_handicap.html

Stone SC have the Phantom on 994.

 

Linky no worky !

 

Try http://www.stonesc.co.uk/SSC_handicap_page.html

Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Have a look at this page.

http://www.stonesc.co.uk/SSC_handicap.html

Stone SC have the Phantom on 994.

 

Linky no worky !

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 11:41am

Have a look at this page.

http://www.stonesc.co.uk/SSC_handicap.html

Stone SC have the Phantom on 994.

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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 07 at 10:27am
Andy, I tried to find details of the Dart 18 personal handicapping system.  I could not find anything on their website so you might want to contact their association directly.  It worked very well and did add a bit extra into the mix at events.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 07 at 9:25pm

Thanks for all the help, the background to the decision to explore how to implement a personal handicap are as follows.

 We are aware that we can change the handicap of the problem fleet, and we are working on a change that is acceptable to the whole of the class. The problem being, as outlined above, that we know from open and national results that the general standard in that fleet is pretty good, but there is still a potential spread of 60 points between the boats. This means that a class correction will either still not make the series competative (we do have several current and past national champs in other fleets) for the leading phantom, or make it impossible for the other members of the fleet to be competative.

The data from our club suggests that a competative phantom with a 80-85kg helm should be sailing off about 950 on our water, using a well sailed laser as the bench mark, once you put a more normal sized phantom helm in the boat you are looking at 1020-1030, obviously on more open water or larger courses the situation changes considerably, due to the weight needed to drive a phantom once up to speed.

With such a wide diversity of performance, although all good yachters in their conditions, which is a much bigger spread than all the other fleets in the dinghy park. In order to maintain dinghy park harmony,a degree of personal handicapping seems the best way forward, and could be applied to the scratch series as well. This would potentially be awarded as a seperate prize for the same series, very much along the ozzy model, but gives more than the three or four phantoms a chance, and therefore hopefully increase turnouts, which due partly to demoralisation has seen a drop in the "all in" series.

We dont want to replace PY handicaping at our club, so the main series would still be done on that basis, but do hope to increase the appeal accross the board, and at the moment we are still in the discussion phase, hence the need to find out how it is done elsewhere.

 

 

Andy Mck
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