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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by WildWood

The idea that Enterprise's, GP14's and 420's are 'old and boring' i......

  These designs are in fact very rewarding and fun to sail and if you sail a decent one, and sailed with some ability at a decent level they can be very technical.

You made my point- there is so much variance in these classes between boats that they are virtually not one design.

 

RS400s for example or lasers do vary a little and age of course, but for the money- and maintenance/set up time - you know you will be racing pretty clean OD with not too many cheque book racers.

 

What ever happened to the ford cortina?

 
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Chas 505

How would it be if National Championships had to have 50 boats connected by a similar theme to be recognised?  That would require an immediate "flocking together" of like minded styles of fleet (with attendances of less than 50) to race as combination-fleets.

Surely this is what TASA is all about, if not in detail?

Personally I really like the idea. 

I remember being thrilled seeing Minis taking on Jags, and Escorts against Ford Falcons in saloon car racing back when I was a kid, whereas I could never get that worked up about stuff like Formula Ford where it was more down to the driver - I mean, one guy wins, the other schmuck loses - who gives a damn? (to misquote 'Not the Nine o'Clock News).

So I really like inter-class racing. This season I've got more of a kick when I've managed to beat 600's, 4k's, Vortices and MPS's on the water in my 3k than I have out of winning class opens.

Not sure I'd want to be limited to Buzzes and 500's as prey now I've got the V3k though...

 
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Calum_Reid View Drop Down
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Posts: 59 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Calum_Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 2:14pm
Now I'm not exactly a newbie to the sport have been sailing competitively for 11 years but I am still young only 18.

If I hadn't decided to go bk to the pointy end of something fast (b14 with Chris Noble) I think I may well have bought a Solo. This will probably be the end of any cred I had left but I don't care. If you want good quality close class racing the only classes to be in up here is Solo's or RS200's.

Yes these boats might not be super fast and might not be going to get the adrenaline pumping in a force 3 but if we sail because we enjoy racing then it doesn't matter that your going slowly in something that may look a bit old fashioned because if your class racing then everyone is going slowly and you get some of the most exciting racing you will ever get.

Now this might not be what first gets people hooked on racing but I do think if people gave some of these classes some credit for what they do then more young people would move into them. I do think at some point in the future I will own a Solo if they continue to get the racing they are at the moment!


Another example would be the Laser 2000. Another boat that's not 'Cool'. I did the nationals and one of the more popular Scottish events in the boat this season and got some of the best racing and sailing I've had outside 400'ing. Now yes we were nearer the front of end of the Nationals fleet and yes just about everyone we were amongst didn't sail a 2000 all the time or they sailed something else as well but it was really good fun! Anyway rant over and yes I have sailed some of these new designs and enjoyed it. At the end of the day getting people out there enjoying our sport is what matters!

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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by mopuk2000

The major attraction to the more traditional classes (all be it the faster ones such as fireballs, 505s and tempests) for me is that they are all International Classes, which is something that very few modern SMODs will ever acheive (with the exeption of perhap the 49er and 29er and one or two others).

Musto Skiff has just be granted ISAF recognised status

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Posts: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mopuk2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 1:58pm

The major attraction to the more traditional classes (all be it the faster ones such as fireballs, 505s and tempests) for me is that they are all International Classes, which is something that very few modern SMODs will ever acheive (with the exeption of perhap the 49er and 29er and one or two others).
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Black no sugar View Drop Down
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Posts: 3941 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 1:40pm

I imagine it's the same story in every club.
Where we are, there used to be a strong fleet of Streakers. Might not be high-performance, but it's a decent boat design that has withstood the test of time.
Unfortunately, they have failed to attract a younger audience and, in our club at least, the Streaker fleet is composed of charming old men, equipped with pipe and grey beard (and hearing aid).
It's a bit of a catch 22 situation, as no newbie wants to start their sailing career where others are finishing theirs; on the other hand, we can't blame the enthusiasts if no new blood comes to the fleet.
Of course, "I sail a Streaker" doesn't do much for pulling power...

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by WildWood

The idea that Enterprise's, GP14's and 420's are 'old and boring' is based on the fact that every club has a few old 'dog boats' sailed by people without much skill and this inevitably puts folk off, since the boats are crap and the sailors don't appear to have much fun.  These designs are in fact very rewarding and fun to sail and if you sail decent one, and sailed with some ability at a decent level they can be very technical.

Not restricted to old boats either. At the club I grew up at there was one Cherub, it was old, knackered and sailed by a plonker whom nobody liked. Even when he 'converted' it to an assymetric nobody would go near the class with a bargepole.

At the club I currently sail at nobody had seriously considered sailing Contenders because somone had an old one to mess about on one, it mostly fell apart and leaked like a seive so when he declared them unsailable at that location that was it. When I turned up there was a mixture of hostility and bemusement but having won a few pots and going out in just about any conditions there is a little more interest. Another boat has arrived at the club and my 'spare' is probably fully booked for trial sails next season.

I think the key to these old boats remaining popular is having a core of enthusiastic owners to keep it going or getting that critical mass where people see it as a 'class that people sail at your club'.
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Chas 505 View Drop Down
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Posts: 119 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chas 505 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 10:27am

Alright here's another idea - based on the fastsail/scottish skiff model.

How would it be if National Championships had to have 50 boats connected by a similar theme to be recognised?  That would require an immediate "flocking together" of like minded styles of fleet (with attendances of less than 50) to race as combination-fleets.

So rather as the various manufacturers have done to create size economies within their own ranges (albeit different styles of fleet), classes could do the scottish skiff thing in one handicapped class.  Possible examples could be (just asym performance 2 handers here):

Cherubs/12 footers/29er XX's - Mini Twin Wire Handicap

Buzzes/L4000's/RS 500 - Single Wire Asym Handicap

Musto Skiff/RS700 - Performance Single Hander Handicap

So each event is run as open class with specific designs seeking fair handicapping within the structure (clearly the smod classes would need appropriate handicap protection from the development classes over time to keep everyone fair).

If builders knew that within these combination classes the buyers had choice, I'll bet that would sort out 2 things PDQ.

1 - design flaws/build quality

2 - boats that only perform to their best in a narrow window.

Hmmm.  Does that sound fun folks, or am I being just plain daft?



Edited by Chas 505
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Work Hard; Play Hard; Sail a 505
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WildWood View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 06 at 9:31am

The idea that Enterprise's, GP14's and 420's are 'old and boring' is based on the fact that every club has a few old 'dog boats' sailed by people without much skill and this inevitably puts folk off, since the boats are crap and the sailors don't appear to have much fun.  These designs are in fact very rewarding and fun to sail and if you sail decent one, and sailed with some ability at a decent level they can be very technical.

The claim that they are too expensive is a misconception as well.  A new FRP boat costs the same or less than a new design plus there is always a good second hand market.

I guess at the end of the day the new designs that really offer something good will survive, while the designs with less to offer will disappear - what ever happened to the ISO??  From my point of view I'd like to see more people sailing the same class of boat as me.  Competition is definately what sailing is about.

 
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damp_freddie View Drop Down
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Posts: 339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote damp_freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 06 at 8:47pm

 

 

This old chestnut again?

People want SMODS and development classes get , er, newer all the time.

 

What people don't want is old, complicated and virtually non OD fleets - the FD, the Finn, the 470....

 

Ok. Back to your Cortina Mrk 4 rally then

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