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Sailing without safety cover

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m_liddell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Sep 06 at 5:19pm

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

If I recall, in another thread, you've recently said that breakages "aren't your fault". Breakages are usually down to poor maintenance or poor crewwork. Better get both right if you plan to sail without safety cover. I hope I've learned from my own mistakes on that one.  

Very true. Dev classes are especially prone to this, especially a boat as complex as a 14

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charlie w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote charlie w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 06 at 5:31pm

During Feb 05, we were 2-boat tuning 505's off Hayling Island with Norman Byrd and Andy Davies.  The wind was Northerly and up around 25 knots as we launched.

A few hours into the session, we decided to turn for home, and being about half way between Bembridge and the lifeboat station, we faced about 25-30 minutes of fast upwind sailing to get to the boat park.

Suddenly we became aware that Hayling Island was vanishing under .....snow.  Yup, we were going to have to sail through it to get home.  The wind increased above 30knots as we tracked upwind.

At no time were we concerned, and neither crew backed off as that would have made us really cold...Dougal commented to me that he really wouldn't have wanted to be out there without another boat.

This set me to thinking about the comment regards rescue cover.

Who actually knows what their kit's limit is - especially in a "home build style of class".

I'll bet that we all fail to genuinely take account of lack of safety cover as an additional risk - because we mostly race with the kit, and view our equipment accordingly.

Is it appropriate that we all risk assess on "best case" basis?

Quality never goes out of fashion.
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MikeBz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 06 at 5:42pm

Whilst on this theme I wonder if people's jury rigging and general resourcefulness have been eroded by constant presence of rescue boat cover?

I remember sailing a Cherub a mile or two home with no rudder, upwind in a reasonable breeze one afternoon after school - it took a while, but we got there.  And jury rigging a I14 on 2 occasions after the mast came down, once to get back to Itchenor and once for a long sail back to Riva on Lake Garda (very hairy bobbing at low speed through windsurfer alley with the jib rigged sideways from the boom which was handily erected in the spaceframe where the mast should have been).   All good fun.

Obviously jury-rigging isn't going to work too well if the wind is forward of the beam.

I saw the antithesis of all this at a Cadet world qualifier a couple of years ago - something broke/malfunctioned in the rudder department on one of the boats, so the complete spare boat was brought out to the race course at high speed sitting across a support rib!  I'm not sure what that teaches you - to go and get a well-paid job I suppose, so probably quite an important lesson in fact...

Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 06 at 6:22pm

i think that most people who sail the higher performance "home built" classes such as the 14 or cherub tend to be more experienced, better sailors, so the boats that are more likely to break tend to have a better prepared crew who will be able to deal with the problem better than some people in other classes (eg cadet). so realy sailing a "home built" boat without safety cover probably wont cause too many problems because these people know what they are doing.

perhaps people should be encouraged to try to sail their boats as if the top half of the mast has gone missing more often. maybe clubs/RYA could organise jury rigging classes or races perhaps. this would certainly be more entertaining than your normal weekend club race, but only in the correct conditions.

 

PS: ahhh what is happening to me?? im sticking up for cherub sailors



Edited by mike ellis
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Phat Bouy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 12:41am
Originally posted by MikeBz

There's a touch of irony about the fact that it tends to be the pond clubs which (due to their lease conditions) don't allow sailing without safety cover, whilst on the sea you're free to do as you like since nobody owns it.  On a pond you'll drift to one side soon enough, on the sea - well the other side could be a long way away.

Mike




There's a very good reason for this, especially if the pond in question is a reservoir. If a person is overboard and does not come back up to the surface then the body will invariably ended up in amongst the water pumping gear. The logistics and disruption to water supplies as the pond is drained to find missing person would be horrendous. So the water companies will make sure that it just can't happen.

Even in a pond, you can get quite bad hypothermia a long time before you hit the shore.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phat Bouy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 12:45am
Originally posted by Prince Buster

I frequently sail without safety cover at my club but just tend not to go too far out if it's really windy.  I don't carry a mobile or a knife.  On the odd occassion I have been tempted by the water after school and have been out a few times in just my boxers and no life jacket, yep i know it's naughty but it's just soooo tempting!!!


Yeh, just don't get caught up with any stingrays!!  The more you live on the edge, the more likely you are to fall off. Good luck.
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MikeBz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote MikeBz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 9:30am

Originally posted by Phat Bouy

The logistics and disruption to water supplies as the pond is drained to find missing person would be horrendous. So the water companies will make sure that it just can't happen.

Good point, although I believe it's more to do with the fear of being found liable in our increasingly-litigious blame-cultured nanny state...

Mike

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ssailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 9:44am
Being able to get yourself home is an improtant aspect to all development class sailors!

In strong force 7 one day we two sail gybed and when I failed to catch the boom just right mid gybe the force snapped the kicker fixings and the mainsheet fixings - one minute we were happy next we were facing a mile or so of upwind sailing with no main or control!

Spending a measly ten mins in the water with a bit of rope sorted us with a very basic kicker and the sail back to the club was completed with me sailing it like a windsurfer by hanging off the boom!!

(btw this was at a regatta and thus getting back to ix it on dry land and gettin back out to the next race were deemed most important! rather than sailing in under jib alone!)

Any one in need of quality carbon fibre work (tillers etc) at decent prices!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 9:52am
Originally posted by mike ellis

i think that most people who sail the higher performance "home built" classes such as the 14 or cherub

I think there is a world of difference between I14's & Cherubs.

They both may be dev classes but the build quality of I14's is typically far superior as the majority if not all are professionally built by the likes of Ovington Boats. When was the last I14 home built?

Rick

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote timnoyce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 06 at 10:52am
They do happen but they are rare. I recall seeing a French wooden one a little while ago that kinda looked like the swift solo. I'll try and find a picture somewhere.

There is debate that quality of the boats COULD be better if they are home built. Someone with the knowledge to build a boat for themselves, but not constrained by profit margains, compared to someone plugging out a boat to make the most money. I admit that some peoples efforts aren't as good as others but there are some very nice home builds out there.

Gavs Simms for example, owner and builder of mango jam, has built his hull, spars, had huge influence on the sail design, foils, adjustable t-foil etc and I can't remember the last time he had a gear failure.

Very true though... as far as development classes go the 14 and the cherub are about as different as you could get
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