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    Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 12:57pm

To everyone telling prince "how to hike better" in his laser, find us one person in the world who's come in from a long windy race in a laser and said "you know what guys, my knees are feeling much better after that! It's as if ive had a joint workout from heaven" 
Prince, is it fair to say that you want a boat that doesnt struggle to go over 10 knts of speed for all your physical effort and pain of hiking your ass off.........??
If so then bye bye laser 4.7/radial/fulrig!!  And sadly that rules out the nicer hiking boats aswell like the streaker, europe, lightening.  (Though it may well be worth your while trying a europe!)
Singlehanded wise i think you're left with a moth, I.C, blaze possibly but i personally reckon you might be on the little side and certainly too small for the 300.  I.C is a great one because you dont actualy hike your ass off, its more of a technical sitting!  And the moth....well the moth needs no explianation
Otherwise find yourself a crew and get a 29er, hike as much or as little as you can be bothered and let the crew do the work.  And then of course there's the 29erX upgrade when you're ready.
wait one second.....29er into 29erX onto the 49er, That sounds like the laser formula BUT GOOD!!! 

Doug.H

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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 2:13pm

Originally posted by Villan

Oh .. Are those CLEATS I see on that Laser?!?

Whats wrong with that! Nothing macho in making things more difficult for yourself!

In flat water, in force 5+, I'd be glad of cleats to save my energy.

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Jon Emmett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 2:14pm

I can honestly say that since working on biomechanics of hiking at Lougborough Uni and subsquently improving my style my joint health has improved considerably and the more hiking practice you do, the stronger the muscles around the knee joint get and therefore the more supported the joint gets. People who have poor hiking fitness are those who struggle with knee problems, not those who regular train with good form!

If you trapeze badly there are still issues, with hips, lower back and shoulders associated with poor positure. The answer is simple, in order to avoid injury whilst sailing you need to be fit enough to sail and often the simpliest way to develope sailing fitness is to do lots of sailing!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kitsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by robinft

Having moved from trapeze boats to a 200 to sail with my young son and just the wrong side of 50 I put the question of knee longevity to my physio recently. He said build up your thighs and there won't be a problem.

So now you know!

 

Yeah I've heard that advice before robin but being a pretty hardcore cyclist i don't think that's really the issue here.....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote kitsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 4:36pm

Jon I'm pretty sure it's not a fitness issue.  Because i'm on the lil side for a radial i have to hike like crazy putting in about double the effort to the other laser sailors at my club just to keep up in windy weather.  I don't really understand what it is you're trying to say, first you say the problem is my hiking style, then you say that straight legged hiking like in liddel's picture doesn't necessarily help, then you say that the issue is fitness......What exactly is your hiking style? Are there any magic tips you can share?? 

Oh yeah and Doug.H you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the more speed less effort bit.  I think i'd be too light for an IC and the whole sliding seat deal seems a bit hard/complicated to me!! I definitely like the idea of a 29erXX but they don't come cheap!! And I'd love a moth but again i think i'd need a bit more weight and a bit more money to get a good one that i could compete in.  If anyone could find a less than £2000 hungry tiger i'd like to know about it!!!   I also think that the area i sail in with loads of cruisers on moorings for about 200m off the club would be the best place to learn how to sail a moth.....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jon Emmett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 5:21pm

Sorry to be unclear. There will be an article coming out in Y&Y which will (hopefully) answer your questions.

Straight leg hiking (knees only very slightly bent) is "good" but requires a reasonable level of fitness due to the demands it places on the legs.

Regards the pictures of Keama, pointed toe sailing is very "bad" for your ankles and sailing "front arm raised" also leads to poor shoulder position.

To help you with your hiking I would really need to see you. If you want to get in touch my email address is jonemmettsailing@aol.com

However there are no magic secrets...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote sten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 6:08pm

Tips on Hiking a Laser, Hiking pants help but hind the mechanics envolved and the feel of the boat,

it is critical to have you toe staps the right length,your legs should be flat on the deck in a Laser. to short and inside of the cockpit digs in your calf, too loose and the gunnel digs in. if your knees are bent it can also load your ankles or knees as your hiking battens slide you outwards.

when beating dont fight the boat, you still have to hike but not flat out all the time move with the waves in all directions, 

a typical sequence as the bow lifts lean back, out and twist the shoulder back as the the boat reaches the top of the wave and max power luffing up to keep it flat, forward, in and twist the shoulder frowards as the bow drops steering the way the rudder would have moved if it wasnt jammed by the traveller to keep flat. the only time you tense you muscles is in the turns ie as you reach maximium hiking position  to come back in. As you turn to move back put the power through your hips into the dack for aft. If you slam a wave you steered wrong or moved out of time with the boat not fast and not good for your knees.

Straight legs also allow you to roll much further fore and aft over each wave where bent legs only allow a torso flex.

Hike in the right place in the boat. To far forward and the bow digs in to the waves , to far back and the transom drags and the bow lifts and slams. just right the hull has constant trim over the waves.

If its very choppy be very agressive with the helm punching it througth the waves so the boat stays flat but doesnt steer all over the place its still possible never to hit a wave but takes lots of time on the water to have perfect timing.

Take care when changing classes as it takes a long time to adjust to a new hiking position, it took me around 6 months to feel comfortable hiking the Finn after the Laser.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Jon Emmett

Regards the pictures of Keama, pointed toe sailing is very "bad" for your ankles and sailing "front arm raised" also leads to poor shoulder position.

How do we square this advice with that from Rooster?

http://www.roostersailing.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen= hikestyle&Store_Code=1

Originally posted by Rooster Website

However, straight leg hiking with pointing feet/toes take less strain on the foot joint, the kneecap and your quads and relieves the tightening on the hamstrings. In addition this style also requires the toe-straps to be tighter which helps the sailor to grip the side of the boat.

Do we point our toes or not?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Doug.H

.....Singlehanded wise i think you're left with a moth, I.C, blaze possibly but i personally reckon you might be on the little side and certainly too small for the 300.  I.C is a great one because you dont actualy hike your ass off, its more of a technical sitting! 

Doug.H

I think you'll find there is hiking in a IC....

more to the point...the main "injury" in ICs is the Ringburn caused by constant sliding up and down the seat......any Sport Scientists willing to do a study in this then?

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote m_liddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 06 at 8:05pm

Originally posted by sten

It is critical to have you toe staps the right length,your legs should be flat on the deck in a Laser. to short and inside of the cockpit digs in your calf, too loose and the gunnel digs in. if your knees are bent it can also load your ankles or knees as your hiking battens slide you outwards.

YES! So many peoples lasers I have sailed when I hike off the toes straight legged the inside of the cockpit digs in to my calf. Even half and inch can make a difference. They are 'toe' straps not 'foot' straps, hike off the toes :)

Ben Tan's book on Laser sailing has an excellent section on hiking along with a few great labelled pics. I could post the pic but not sure if I could get done for copyright...

Oh and cleats are not girly. Real men put them on so the sheet gets stuck in them just as a gust hits

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