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Olympic Classes

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Tornado_ALIVE View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 11:13am
Originally posted by dinghysolutions

Sailing would be better off not being in the olympics at all. This would mean that people will sail boats that they actually like  and some of these old classes would not be around any more..

  To decide class's and race foremate  just to suit TV makes the olympics a waist of time as you dont get all the best sailors in the world sailing the best boats in the world. And example of this could be one 470 world title the top 10 were full of 7 New Zealanders but only one went.So the silver and Bronze winners at those olympics where not really the best in the world.

 Worlds Titles have more recogition than Olympics. Sailing would be better off not in the olympics at all!

Firstly, to make the Olympics you have to be the top team for your country over the Qualifing period ( up to 4 years).....  That is a measure of consistancy, not a potential one off brilliance if you win a Worlds.  Then you will race against the best of other countries that are consistantly good performers and not one shot specials.  This will be 4 years of dedication, putting your carrier, relationships, life on hold for this one in 4 year event.

There is no doupting the importance of an Olympic Campaign.

The Olympics also gives sailing that little bit more exposure to the general public which can not be a bad thing.

National Bodies both sporting and government give $$$$ for Olympic success.  If sailing is not in the Olympics, then these $$$$ go to another sport.

These $$$$ goes into facilities, assisting in financing the running of our National and state yachting bodies, research and develpment in boats, sails, rigs, hardware, systems, sailing techneques at a FULLY PROFESIONAL level.  This in turn trickles down to non Olympic classes and sailors benifiting the whole sport.

Those who are closed minded will not see how important and how much to offer, Olympic competition is to the general yachting comunity.

Originally posted by dinghysolutions

Sailing would be better off not being in the olympics at all.

It absolutley $hits me to tears every time I here this comment and makes me realise how ill informed, closed minded and just plain greedy some people are.

I say greedy because those who make this comment only care about how it directly effects THEM in the imediate short term and is not appreciative of the long term direct and indirect gains our sport gets from an Olympic Games.

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7250 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 7250 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 11:22am
I don't think the Laser is a precedent for a boat like the MPS. The Laser is totally unique in the history of dinghy sailing. 180,000 boats compared with a couple of hundred at most. Dead simple and low tech compared with a carbon fibre skiff.

For accessibility the 49er is a far better precedent for the MPS. Now the standard equipment in the 49er has definitely not made it more accessible to poorer countries. It is actually far less so, sailed in far fewer "poorer" nations, than the other double handed Olympic boat, the 470. At Athens, for example; 49er - 19 boats. 470 men - 27 boats.

Next, you don't need a mast development programme to win in the Finn. Not only is top Finn gear bought straight off the shelf, in the same way you would buy a SMOD, but people have gone to the Olympics with the cast-off masts and boats of others, and beaten them with it.

+++ Sorry for the edit, but the post was un-necessarily strong for such a polite discussion. +++

Edited by 7250
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 1:04pm

I agree totally with Stephan, how can you say that Sailing should not be in the Olympics?! Every class of boat in england even if it is not an Olympic Class will have had some benefit from sailing being the Olympics. Sailing would not be any where near as big as it is today without the Olympics nor would we have so much funding and opportunity availble and coaching available. The RYA do not force kids or people to sail Olympic Classes but simply say that if you want to go to the Olympics this is what you need to do to get our support. The RYA's money comes from Sport England and the RYA can not simply give this money to any class of boat it has been alocated and they only get because of the Olympics.

Personally I think the MPS should replace the Finn in the Olympics in terms of attracting more veiwers of maybe even the Moth. The Finn is a great boat with really tight racing and it is also demanding to sail, but show any non-sailor video footage of a Finn in 15knots and a MPS and all of them will say the MPS looks cool and more exciting. If you know a lot about sailing then watching Finn's sail is really good because you can understand it but not to the general non-sailor.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 1:36pm

Originally posted by 7250

At Athens, for example; 49er - 19 boats. 470 men - 27 boats. .

Actually if you consider that 202 countries were represented at the Athens Olympics, both those numbers are pitifully small.

I've no doubt that for sailing, being part of the Olympics is a positive thing. For a class however, it is often bad news. The Europe was doing very nicely thank you as an International youth and womens' class until it was picked up by the Olympics and dumped again a few years later. In the meantime, most of those sailing at a sub-Olympic level moved to other classes and they aren't coming back.

So if you think your class ought to be Olympic, be careful what you wish for, in case you get it.

 

 



Edited by Stefan Lloyd
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 1:40pm

Originally posted by Skiffman

Personally I think the MPS should replace the Finn in the Olympics

So how many countries have fleets?  

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Post Options Post Options   Quote allanorton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

If we can compare the 49er with the FD I believe the 49er is better for the cameras and a test truer to the Olympic ideal

I don't totally agree, the average joe doesn't have a clue what's going on after the start and boats start zigzaging in different directions, if he manages to see them round the windward mark, he's then going to see them start zigzaging downwind.  The public like to know who's winning and see the overtaking happening, they're used to watching things going round tracks/circuits where this is easy.  Any assymetric boat will overcomplicate viewing for the general public, symetric spinaker boats & boats without spinakers make racing easier to follow.

I like the 49er, I think for sailors it does make for more intersting viewing, though by 2012 it will no doubt look a bit dated.  As for the olympic ideal, I think that boats are needed which encourage decent sized fleets (50+) not 19.



Edited by allanorton
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Chew my RS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chew my RS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:05pm
Its all a bit academic really.  The criteria for the 2008 open single hander includes 'scope for development'.  No SMOD can achieve this.  I'm not passing judgement on whether the criteria are right, but you've got to play the game to the rules.  If one assumes that the chosen class must have international status, then only the Moth, Int Canoe, A Class and Finn meet the criteria.  You could argue that the Finn isn't very fast and the A Class isn't (particually) athletic, leaving just the Moth or Canoe.  I don't think either would increase participation, or is any truer a test of ability, but I didn't make the rules up...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:25pm

"Scope for development" but I suspect not a "development class". It is many years since there was an Olympic development class. The problem is the budget. I'd be amazed if the Moth was selected. And I believe that strictly speaking, the Canoe is a canoe, not a sailboat, which might make things ticklish for the ISAF.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote NeilP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:46pm

Originally posted by Chew my RS

The criteria for the 2008 open single hander includes 'scope for development'.  No SMOD can achieve this.

Exactly the point I was making. The "men's" and "women's" classes are intended to be "out of the box" equipment, while all the "open" classes are intended to allow for development. On that basis it's not possible to replace the Finn with the MPS.

On another note, there's very little point in discussing what could/couldn't be the next Olympic class because

A) If IOC/ISAF want a particular class, they will simply write the criteria to fit that class, or ignore the criteria as they did with the 49er

B) Most of the established "one design", as opposed to "development", classes would be pretty thoughtful as to whether they would want to be selected. I can't see a Manufacturer wanting to have it's brand spanking new class appropriated by the 5-ring circus, can you? In theory it couldn't happen, because there is a requirement for any Olympic class to be an International class first. That didn't stop ISAF from selecting the 49er though!

BTW, in case anyone thinks I'm bitter and twisted about the 49er, it's a great boat and Olympic sailing is better off for it's inclusion

Neil

No FD? No Comment!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 06 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

"Scope for development" but I suspect not a "development class".


I think you'll find "Scope for development" means different sailmakers and the like. There are some countries in ISAF that are very anti the SMOD restriction of supply and would prefer things to be able to be sourced locally.
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