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Is inflation impacting Nationals Attendance? |
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Mozzy 
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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 Topic: Is inflation impacting Nationals Attendance?Posted: 02 Sep 22 at 12:06pm |
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Our gate was moving for 6 minutes, but pathfinder allowed to tack off after about 4.
After 6 minutes it stops moving and drifts Then at some point it closes completely. You couldn't gybe round as you'd have no rights. And if they did that no one would want to be pathfinder ever.
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Gordon 1430
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 27 Jun 17 Location: Lee on Solent Online Status: Offline Posts: 310 |
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Posted: 02 Sep 22 at 11:58am |
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Hi Sam
No they are just released to tack if they want to and the guard boat will sit and drift so a predetermined time allowing late boats to start. Regards Gordon
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Gordon
Phantom 1430 |
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Sam.Spoons
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 02 Sep 22 at 9:16am |
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I always thought that when the gate boat released the pathfinder he had to gybe round and start behind the gate (who continues at the same speed and direction for a distance) so no advantage at all?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Mozzy
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Posted: 30 Aug 22 at 7:48am |
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there was a bit of boat park chat about that before the event, and whether the pathfinder being from relatively higher in the fleet would cause more boats to start late.
In reality, anywhere from 60th to 1st is going to be pretty similar boat speed in clear air. Boat speed differences upwind are very small, and only really noticeable at all because boats slip back in to dirty air which then exaggerates the situation. So, I don't think quick or slow pathfinder really pays in to the equation. Perhaps they could have chosen 20th as pathfinder, because as the fleets get bigger, the regatta typically gets higher scoring, and 10th would have been a counter for all boats in the fleet except the winner. Probably the best way to determine if being the pathfinder is an advantage would be to see if their race result was above or below their personal average... but that's more maths than I fancy doing! Our worst results were often when we 'won' the tuning run on our little bit of the gate, but in doing so meant we had sailed the unfavoured tack for too long. And some of our best results were after being spat out and instead focusing on getting in phase.
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 30 Aug 22 at 6:28am |
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Well interesting on two counts, first that the set of results accumulated by the pathfinders would have got them to tenth i.e. neutral outcome, and also interesting in that 10th is relatively higher up the fleet than in other (smaller) fleets. Truth is you only need someone who can sail as fast as the fleet upwind, though often the tactic is “if I’m faster than the pathfinder I’ll go early”
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Happily living in the past
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NicolaJayne
Posting king 
Joined: 01 Mar 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 109 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 22 at 9:11pm |
given the pathfinder ina gate start changes every race and it's the boat who finished 10th in the last race (presumably to stop the real hot shots complaining aobut being got for it, but also to provide a decent standard of sailor ) |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 22 at 4:46pm |
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Interesting, particularly that the results would have got you 10th
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Happily living in the past
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Mozzy
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 22 at 4:12pm |
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The above is the first start of the event, pathfinder finished 2nd, but was first to first mark.
After that pathfinder finished: 11, 1, 31, 12, 21, 3, 14, 45, 47. So that's an average of just over 20th, for boats who had all finished 10th in the previous race. If you took the pathfinders results for the regatta, you would have finished 10th overall. FWIW I think the gap from pathfinder to the fleet is more like 2-3 boat lengths. You get washed down by the prop wash, but then jump forward on the wake of the rib a second later, so it evens out. If the course is really right favoured, or super even, then for sure it's an advantage, but only one you can get once in event. However, even with small shifts, on a 15 minutes beat, with boats spread over 1 mile, that small advantage soon evaporates with a 5 degree shift. |
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davidyacht
Really should get out more
Joined: 29 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1345 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 22 at 3:50pm |
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How many races were won by the Pathfinder? Looks like they had a four or five boat length advantage due to the wash of the gate boat
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Happily living in the past
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Mozzy
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 21 Apr 20 Online Status: Offline Posts: 209 |
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Posted: 29 Aug 22 at 2:32pm |
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Here are some of the wrap up videos:
And a gate start drone video (terrible start from myself, if you can spot it, but there were some mitigating circumstances) Edited by Mozzy - 29 Aug 22 at 2:33pm |
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