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Drop the discards? |
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gbrspratt 
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Joined: 26 Sep 11 Location: Felixstowe Online Status: Offline Posts: 170 |
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 Topic: Drop the discards?Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 10:07am |
So what about this at the Merlin rocket nationals? Should 1st place be able to discard a BFD? That would have him down to 6th? Who do you penalise? The guys who have sailed consistently all week or the guy who has won the most races but been up and down? |
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jeffers
Really should get out more 
Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 8:40am |
Not that recently Jim, not since the 80s (and pretty much none since the advent of the first concorde agreement).
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 8:39am |
I think in amateur fleets this is the main argument against it. In pro fleets of more homogeneous standard it's very much a game of bringing your average up, where in large amateur fleets with low point scoring the game is already very much about improving your worst results, removing discards entirely may take this to the extreme. |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 8:31am |
But you can't request redress just because some else broke a rule. It has to have caused significant damage to your boat or self. Also, if you are damaged in a collision where another boat broke a rule when you were down in the pack, the redress is unlikely to bump you back up to the top, it would just reinstate you where you were when the incident happened. So I wouldn't say there is any increased likelihood of people requesting redress. If damage has affected a boats race, then boats should be protesting for redress, I don't see discard changing that, unless it happens in the last race of the series you never know when you are going to pick up another bad result. May it increase more protests in situation not applicable to redress? I don't think so, most protests don't go through because there is no gain, or just a single point gain, for the protester. That wouldn't change. It might however improve rule observance as people would know one collision, or one lost protest would end their event.
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bustinben
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 7:01am |
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Interesting one...
In a three race series like a one day open I'm all for dropping the discard to keep things exciting. For a 6+ race series like a laser qualifier or a national championship , I think it would have two effects. 1. People would respect the start line more 2. The winners of individual events would get more random and the tactics would change significantly. For example, you could win 5 races by miles, then have a 20th due to external mishaps (someone crashes into you on the start line) and lose to someone who scored 5ths. You'd therefore have every race as damage limitation because a bad score does you more damage than the improvement a good score does. I think that the racing would get quite negative and you would choose to cover/limit exposure in every situation. |
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Chris 249
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Posted: 24 Aug 18 at 3:09am |
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If you don't have a discard in "amateur" racing, you'll probably have a lot more requests for redress. Many times it seems that when you're mired in mid pack and having a bad race, you get slowed down by people who don't know the rules. If you're going to drop the race anyway and therefore it doesn't matter if you finish 15th or 20th, it's no big deal and you don't make an issue of it. If, on the other hand, you had to count every race those five points may prove critical. Therefore you'll probably quite often end up with a top contender protesting some mid-fleeter or a back-of-the-fleet sailor who was having a better than usual race. That doesn't sound like a really good recipe for fleet harmony. It's also very hard to see how a race committee could work out what adjustment to apply if one of the potential winners wins a redress request after being hit at a mark rounding when they are buried 25 boats back on the first lap.
I'm also unsure what the problem is that not having a discard is trying to solve. Yes, some other sports count all results. On the other hand, there are sports that only count a few results - long jump for example discounts most attempts. F1 has had discard races in the past and often the crowns are decided before the last race. It doesn't stop F1 attracting huge crowds. Similarly, the last day in the Tour de France is basically ceremonial and has only once decided the winner in over a century of competition; normally even the green sprinter's jersey has already been decided before the last day. Since some of the world's biggest sporting events often effectively don't count the last event or all the events, it's clearly not a major issue for spectators.
Edited by Chris 249 - 24 Aug 18 at 3:12am |
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sailcraftblog.wordpress.com
The history and design of the racing dinghy. |
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salmon80
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Joined: 29 Nov 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 119 |
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Posted: 23 Aug 18 at 10:53pm |
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got to have a discard. if you get t-boned off the start by an idiot it can ruin your race and the series.
you cannot have a 10 race series where someone has 9 wins and a RTD 82 and get beaten by somebody who comes 9th in every race |
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Sam.Spoons
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Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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Posted: 23 Aug 18 at 11:59am |
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All of these ideas seem unnecessarily complicated, why not use the F1 scoring system with points for the first 10 places, easy for the general public to understand?
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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Posted: 23 Aug 18 at 11:30am |
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I can’t remember the numbers, but I think the proposal was to have 4 boats in the medal series, so max 5 races. The uncertainty around the number of races to televise is still an issue though.
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Oli
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Joined: 23 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1020 |
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Posted: 23 Aug 18 at 11:12am |
I like that idea, until if you assume that the medal race is a 10 boat fleet then you have a potential of needing 10 races for the final, however small the chance. perhaps a 3 boat fleet on in very reduced course area with that format would work to keep the viewer interest up?
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