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Eisvogel View Drop Down
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Posts: 135 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Eisvogel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fireballs Nationals
    Posted: 31 Jul 18 at 12:55pm
Well, singlehanders don't need a crew, so one less obstacle to going sailing. You can decide on the spur of the moment if you want to go out, rather than having to organise a crew (who might also be pressed for spare time). Fewer dependencies, more opportunities...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 18 at 10:24am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Given double handers in general are taking a bit of hit with changes on wider social conditioning of sports participation

Not picking on you, because many have said the same,  but is it true? It's not been my impression personally. 

I guess I understand the theory behind it... more competition for time, varying working hours make arranging time to get out is harder. But doesn't that hit single handers just as much as double? 
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 18 at 7:49am
An intereting point is look at the names competing at the GP14 worlds. A fair few of them are usually seen in a Fireball (which may explain the drop as well as the upcoming worlds in Carnac).
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Posts: 356 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 6:48pm
Pretty much a year ago to the day, we had a similar thread running here after the Merlins had a sub 40 boat fleet and the Enterprises sub 30 boats for their respective Nationals - with both these events being held in the far north west of Wales. You don't have to hunt back to find the thread - the reasons discussed then are the same as we've seen with regard to the Fireballs - conflicting events, time pressures and yes.... distance to travel. As with Penzance, Pwllheli and Abersoch, thanks to great work by the class associations,  put on first class  events that those who did travel enjoyed to the max....sadly  the issue simply came down that there weren't enough  able to do so.

It would be remiss of me however if I failed to point out that in the past, hosting or having access to major events - such as a European or World Championships, can often result in a 'negative legacy', where numbers dip once everyone has enjoyed their day in the sun. The better classes can ride this out or better still, include some planning for  the 'what ought we to do next' - others may struggle.

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Posts: 823 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 4:41pm
What would be the objective of introducing carbon?  Easier to sail? Reduced weight? Increased performance? These questions would need to be addressed before a rule change can be sensibly discussed. 

Only once ever sailed a 'ball (sadly), when I was far to naive to judge (and carbon rigs didn't exist anyway), but it is generally completely uncontentious in the Contender fleet that carbon rigs have made the boats nicer to sail. Better gust response, easier to right. I've no idea if the same would apply to Fireballs, but I'd certainly think it would be worth consideration.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by iGRF



You want more Fireballs at Nationals = sell more boats - simples

The point you are deliberately ignoring is that the class are quite happy to trade a drop in numbers at the local event (a nationals), in order to encourage a entourage of UK and ROI boats to the World Champs as it's in Northern Europe.   

The fact that the Fireball Class can hold a bona fide World Sailing World Championship is enough for most of us to understand they're still a strong class offering world class racing for those who participate in it.  Given double handers in general are taking a bit of hit with changes on wider social conditioning of sports participation, I don't think that a bit of dip in numbers for the Nationals  is really anything they need concern themselves about.  



Edited by turnturtle - 30 Jul 18 at 4:16pm
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 2:27pm
The Easy access issue wasn't addressed at National Championship attendance, but currently most double handers are suffering a greater decline even than single handers and if you want to address the issue of natural wastage that most actions sports these days seem to be experiencing then anything that removes obstacles to that end is a good thing.

Everyone in the game of marketing action sports will tell you how important it is to experience the 'sizzle' as soon as possible if you want to sell the sausages. So, if you want to sell Fireballs in the future, wether you like it or not you have to address these issues. Easier access, shorter learning curve and quicker route to excitement. That's it, everything else is insider detail which nobody needs to know about until they're hooked, too much detail can confuse the sale. Which is exactly why dinghy sailing is a next to impossible sell. KISS remember that acronym?

You want more Fireballs at Nationals = sell more boats - simples


Edited by iGRF - 30 Jul 18 at 2:28pm
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Posts: 70 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ardea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 11:16am
At the risk of sounding like a Luddite, I'm generally against adding carbon masts to existing classes.  For me the performance gain over an ali spar does not warrant the added maintenance requirement.  Unless there was a big saving on the carbon mast I don't think it'll outweigh the faff of having to varnish it every couple of years.  I can see a FRP fireball as a great prospect for someone wanting something fun, fast & challenging which won't really deteriorate if life dictates it has to spend a season or two sat in the dinghy park without any TLC.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 10:26am
A long weekend championship at a central venue with a home fleet is a near certain way to bump attendance up. In hindsight, this year maybe the Fireballs could have benefited from doing that. 

However, it is a short term  fix and if a class want to stay relevant nationally it must do its share of nationals further afield to keep the class national. I also think five-day events are worthier of ‘championship’ status and are worth preserving in the long run. 

With the focus on the worlds in carnac, perhaps this was a good time for the fireballs to ‘suck up’ a low turnout at a more distant venue? 
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 18 at 9:41am
What would be the objective of introducing carbon?  Easier to sail? Reduced weight? Increased performance? These questions would need to be addressed before a rule change can be sensibly discussed. 

Whilst there may be arguments for allowing carbon in certain places (e.g. tiller & extn, kite pole, main boom), it is thought that a carbon stick would reduce the optimum weight. We also need to be cognizant of the other nations where Fireballs are sailed - some of whom do not have access to the new kit that is available to us in the UK. Finally, there is still a perception that carbon = expensive. While this may be true in some cases I don't believe it to be true everywhere. Final note: carbon foils would require rules changes re minimum weights of these parts.
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