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your responsibilities as a sailor

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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: your responsibilities as a sailor
    Posted: 15 May 13 at 10:59am
In my view, no one should be allowed to "buy out" of duties and they should be made compulsory, not voluntary for all members.  Only, IMO, by getting involved in another side of your club; rescue boat crew, tea bar, race officer, results, maintenance, can you actually;

a) properly appreciate what is being done to keep things going
b) properly appreciate what needs to be done to improve things
c) gain a decent appreciation/view of what is actually "available and possible" at your club

The spirit of a sailing club is, for me, as much about the atmosphere and banter of the people doing the organising and 'operations' as it is about the atmosphere and banter generated by the participants. 

Why would you want to enable or encourage members to opt out?
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 11:11am
Originally posted by getafix

 

Why would you want to enable or encourage members to opt out?

Because if you force the issue, then they will simply stop being members.  It's happened at our SC, some of the recreational sailors didn't renew when there was a edict from the top saying duties would be 'enforced' in 2011/12; whereas previously it was in the club rules, however in practice only the guys who were actively racing were put on the rota....  at least they might actually turn up to do it. It was even more ridiculous when the windsurfers were told they'd be 'on duty'... the only service they really use is the rescue cover, something we actually have fully professional cover for- it's imho, our primary unique selling point.  Without seeing any stats, I'd say we've got to be one of the safest places to sail and windsurf in the country.

On a good year, I will probably get 10-15 sundays a year out of my club.  Probably on most of those for only one of the three scheduled races.   Let's say, on average 20 sunday races a year- assuming I don't elect to windsurf (my choice).  If I am forced to do duties on two of those days for the full day- 3 races each, then that's 30% of the time helping run racing not participating in it.  Frankly at that split, I question the benefit in taking part at all.  So I can see why it would make more sense to sail under the RYA banner, going to a few opens instead.  

As it happens I haven't been on the rota this year (didn't dinghy race last year so my name dropped off the list).  Next year I will be on it again, however I plan to sell my duties to another member- thus in effect, paying more and reducing the membership fee of someone else who is prepared to do more duties.  I guess much as it doesn't seem so corinthian, the pay and play, with semi-professional race management would work for me.




Edited by pondmonkey - 15 May 13 at 11:17am
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Fraggle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fraggle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 11:56am
Clubs need to make best use of the skills in the membership. 
 
My current club works along the lines of if you do something to benefit the club it counts as your duty.  Whether this is the traditional RO/Safety/Galley etc or something more obscure like website skills or helping with legal documents or carpentry work in the club etc.  Everyone is expected to do something but it doesn't have to be a rostered set role.
 
I personally am not rostered to any set duty this year.  But I am joint laser rep, co-ordinating and coaching laser squad sessions, will be ARO at a number of opens and am a reserve for anyone rostered to ask if they can't make there ARO/Safety duty.  Only thing I point blank refuse to do is Galley - I don't want to poison the membership!
 
I also see signing on as my club at opens as helping as we are promoting how good the club racing is and encouraging others on the circuit to join. 
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iansmithofotley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iansmithofotley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by getafix

In my view, no one should be allowed to "buy out" of duties and they should be made compulsory, not voluntary for all members.  Only, IMO, by getting involved in another side of your club; rescue boat crew, tea bar, race officer, results, maintenance, can you actually;

a) properly appreciate what is being done to keep things going
b) properly appreciate what needs to be done to improve things
c) gain a decent appreciation/view of what is actually "available and possible" at your club

The spirit of a sailing club is, for me, as much about the atmosphere and banter of the people doing the organising and 'operations' as it is about the atmosphere and banter generated by the participants. 

Why would you want to enable or encourage members to opt out?

Hi getafix,

I agree with your comments.  Some of these issues have been discussed before (a long time ago):

http://old.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=296&KW=caring&PN=1&title=club-rescue-boat-rotas

Ian   (Yorkshire Dales S.C.)
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alstorer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

However jimbo how many people have space at home to store a boat? A windsurfer is small and easily fits in a garage.
With new builds, less and less people. With houses being squeezed onto ever smaller plots, there's less space for decent sized garages and gardens
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 12:11pm
at the moment I feel I'm 'working' almost full time for my club as I organise events, run training, do duties, sit on the Committee etc.  I'm there five out of seven days a week, with the other two days spent doing huge amounts of paperwork.  It's all voluntary and I do it because I'm unemplyed so have the free time, plus I enjoy it.

In the past, however, I barely spent any time at whichever club I was member of; I was too busy running round the country and europe racing and having fun.  I thought all committee members were old farts!

Perhaps now I too am an old fart, and people like me come in for a lot of stick because we never 'get things done' as quickly or as efficiently as members might like.  A lot of the problem is that commmittee members simply become such because they want to be important; they actually do sod all, annoy those of us that do work, and get the committee as a whole a bad name.

 This is why even though there may be a committee - and very often far too many sub-committees - small clubs still need lots of help from the membership.  The idea that Fraggle describes is a good one - so many members have skills across so many specialisms that would be useful to a club but too often go ignored.  Mine is a small, friendly club where almost everything is done by its membership.  This inspires a sense of ownership and pride in the club, which lately has made it a great place to be.  This year for the first time in a long time I didn't renew my membership of our nearest big club neighbour, not because it's not a great place to sail, but because it's a grim place to be, with paid staff but no smiling friendly faces.  Easier and cheaper to pay the extortionate day rate and then walk away once you've had your funa dn de-shrimped your boat.
the same, but different...

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

However jimbo how many people have space at home to store a boat? A windsurfer is small and easily fits in a garage. A 505 takes up a little more space. Certainly if I had the space my phantom wouldn't live at my club, I don't sail there these days, it's little more than a boat park for me, luckily the charges aren't very high.  

I think this is a very pertinent point- issues over memberships at our club rarely given due consideration to the real estate.  Our fees are considered relatively high because we have a lease with Severn Trent that needs paying for.  IMHO- people should pay pro-rata for the real estate they take up.

wrt other points- of course you're entitled to 'some time off'; but that's the problem, being a member of a club has far more 'emotional baggage' than being a customer of a leisure centre who can balance usage and value for money.
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by winging it

Easier and cheaper to pay the extortionate day rate and then walk away once you've had your funa dn de-shrimped your boat.

I'm not sure what that rate is there, but our day rate is far from extortionate in my opinion- twenty quid for the whole day.  That's cheaper than a cinema ticket and a bucket of popcorn each for a double hander.  A damn cheap day out for a family in a Stratos....    

That said, we have expressly banned windsurfers from day sailing at weekends, as without doubt, it would be a more economical solution for the sailor to quit membership and pay the day rates, thus further drops in membership.  I was always against this policy, 'more people on the water', 'potential new member' etc (going back to my OP about feeling responsible for promoting sailing), best to have some income and engagement than none at all etc.....

Now I'm firmly of the mindset that why should I have the water space restricted, fight for parking and rigging space on the windy weekends, with someone who pays just 5% of my annual sub.  Secondly, who's going to 'police' it... I happily, happily pay for the fantastic safety cover we receive, the last thing I want is those guys being distracted from their primary responsibilities chasing down pricks who will inevitably think they can get away without paying.


Edited by pondmonkey - 15 May 13 at 12:59pm
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by getafix

 

Why would you want to enable or encourage members to opt out?



On a good year, I will probably get 10-15 sundays a year out of my club.  Probably on most of those for only one of the three scheduled races.   Let's say, on average 20 sunday races a year- assuming I don't elect to windsurf (my choice).  If I am forced to do duties on two of those days for the full day- 3 races each, then that's 30% of the time helping run racing not participating in it.  Frankly at that split, I question the benefit in taking part at all.  So I can see why it would make more sense to sail under the RYA banner, going to a few opens instead.  






Jimbo, I do enjoy the totally logical, objective and businesslike manner in which you view the things that for a lot of people are treated in an emotive and irrational way, generally leading them to absolutely heammorhage cash on what can't even be considered to be actual value judgements.

I reckon that if ever things are a bit slow in the starch game you could have an excellent career as a slave trader. Or a pimp. Wink
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 13 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

.......you could have an excellent career as a slave trader. Or a pimp. Wink
 
We freelancers often refer to our esteemed employment (sorry, consukltancy) agents as the latter, never heard them called slave traders before......
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