V Twin

The icon is 87kg all up. That is not bad, in a last-century way. But you have to remember it has also shed the spinnaker, so you might as well ditch the crew as well. · Originally posted by fab100

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Originally posted by fab100

So here is a question for you GRF: do you throw out your PC/ipod/TV/car/trousers/whatever and buy new every time a slightly updated version comes out? Perhaps you do.
 I'm an early adopter, bought the first iPod, iPhone, iPad, have always used macs, I skip the occasional version but generally keep as up to date as i feel is necessary to perform the various relevant and new functions, i have an iPhone 4 but not bothered with the S, but generally yes I keep up to date ish.

Originally posted by fab100

But sane people don't. They wait until the old one breaks beyond economic repair, slows to a crawl from software updates (PC), granny wills them some money or they can afford a new one, many updates down the line.
No, sorry your world is clearly different to mine, do you sail GP14 by any chance, that's the type of person you are describing, they are exactly the market that is all too prevalent and pandered to in dinghy world to the detriment of what could be.

Originally posted by fab100

What does not happen is that as soon as Apple/Intel/BMW releases a new model, everyone is obligated to bin the old one and buy new. But this is what you are advocating. Yes, you could perhaps build a laser or RS200 shaped boat in carbon et al for half the weight and twice the price. But you would destroy these highly supported and completive classes for no tangible gain. The racing would be worse not better, as you would lose most of your people, and quite right too. For what, so the gullible could all go 7.89% faster around the course? So what? No one cares. Its about the competition not the speed. So grass roots support and momentum are what drives the market. 
Using the car analogy, folk do not still drive round in Austin sevens because they are good sport. So what about a five year cycle rather than the current average thirty year cycle of change then?

Originally posted by fab100

This is basic economics and will not change even if you personally gift every household in the country the £15k on the proviso they buy your wonderful new lightweight super-boat (that most of us will hate 'cos the racing will be cr@p). And repeat every 3 years thereafter, insisting they give the old one back as it too is now useless.
Unlike branded clothing, the selling USP does not come from being the latest, trendy thing, but from almost the opposite, the strength of the existing network. And building a network from scratch in an already widely diverse market is a huge ask. All the cards are stacked against. This is why the industry is like it is - it has to deal with the world as it, not as you think it should be. 

So as I said yesterday, get yourself a Moth. And if it does not suit your current club, get in the car and drive somewhere else where it does. But be warned, even in a Moth you will need to hike hard to be competitive with the guys who know what they are doing.

Let me give you another world of basic economics, Bikes, where they spend £5-6000 a pop, frequently and own two or three, the sad fact is there are parallel worlds where people are still spending big sums on their sport activities, provided the product brings with it added value and reason to change.

Take away the reason to change and you take away the desire to innovate and improve, having the fixed status quo of people like you as 'advisors' to the newcomers to the sport perpetuates the stagnation.
Having everything so difficult, just because you and your peers took so long to learn, so that must be the way for everyone, also limits potential.

It's not a question of cost, and talking of sane, why is it sane to spend tens of thousands on a clinker built anachronism because it's what, anti-cool? Building a £1200 carbon mast that is so spindly it snaps at the first half decent gust, those boys at our club who recently bought one must be gutted.

There's plenty of money around if the need arises, what the problem is, is the route to the market for the folk who have the money, what happens to them is they get advised by people like you and so the charade persists.

There is no super GT performer to sell at added value, even you fell for what we all thought was one, then got bitterly disappointed because it was a shiny version of the same ole same ole and riddled with faults that no entry level adult could cope with, even quite reasonable and capable sailors had to junk it, so, all the time that continues you'll dwindle, which is a shame, because it needn't be that way.

I'm taking a total newcomer, MD of a local company, I'm going to teach him to sail and crew for me in the Alto, would I have a hope in hell of doing that in a 505? No, not a chance and even now after 8 years and I'm not exactly a newcomer to sailing, would I go near anything as complex as that, it's needlessly complex in this day and age.

So you and I, we're worlds apart, you however already have what you want, it's all there, exactly as you like it and dying exactly as I predict it will unless there is an easier yet still accessible high performance route into sailboat racing that attracts the adult adventure seeker with high levels of disposable income, sorry to break that to you, but as usual like most dinghy sailors you're wrong. 