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    Posted: 24 May 12 at 9:14am
Originally posted by pondmonkey

There's a fleet of Streakers at Redoubt, I do wonder if he'd enjoy racing in a class, as when it comes to dinghies I don't think he's really experienced it yet.
 
He is NEVER going to do that because then he would have his racing abilities exposed ...
 
All the time he is messing about in odd craft they provide an excuse/cover for his inability to sail or spot a windshift/bend or exploit the tide ....yes hiding from fleet racing is his best cover ...
 
Note the tide issue wont apply on Redoubt
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 9:06am
I am reliably mid to bottom fleet in my C2 sailing off 1140. In a week or so my ancient Solo will be on the water sailing off 1153 I think. This is a perfect opportunity to actually see how well it goes. Regarding new replacement designs that do the same thing, do we need them? Look at what John Claridge has done to the Lightning? Totally updated and so much nicer but the last two Nationals have been won by a 30 year old, old style boat with a dacron sail. The same can be said of the latest Supernova's.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 9:06am
Originally posted by JimC

I'm curious about something... The poor old Solo is taking a slating here as being supposedly the epitome of hopelessly outdated boats that should be superceded, but I don't see an awful lot about how it should be replaced.

Why don't you guys see if you can get a consensus as to how it should be replaced/updated? However lets put just one limitation on that: the general performance profile, speed in light airs relative to strong winds, handling and so on mustn't change, because that must be a major factor in its current popularity - increasing slowly but steadily since at least the 1980s. I shall be very interested to see what you come up with.

I await with baited breath... 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 9:05am
Originally posted by JimC

I'm curious about something... The poor old Solo is taking a slating here as being supposedly the epitome of hopelessly outdated boats that should be superceded, but I don't see an awful lot about how it should be replaced.

Why don't you guys see if you can get a consensus as to how it should be replaced/updated? However lets put just one limitation on that: the general performance profile, speed in light airs relative to strong winds, handling and so on mustn't change, because that must be a major factor in its current popularity - increasing slowly but steadily since at least the 1980s. I shall be very interested to see what you come up with.


There isn't really any need or point in replacing the Solo.
The fleets/classes that want replacing are all the wannabe Solo replacements that can't  muster a decent open series or championship fleet.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Peaky

What are we supposed to do...

Therein lies the problem, because what is best fir us as individuals (buy a cheap old boat and fleet race) is not what is best for sport (buy new, buy frequently, keep a thriving industry in business). This contradiction is an interesting new branch of science combining evolution and game theory, but I don't have a solution (yet!). An aggregation of classes might help (that way you could view the Lightning as a newer Solo and a C2 as an even newer one). Race off scratch, with prizes for sub-classes.

Going incommunicado now.


I think that's a classic case of confusing the sport with the industry.
What's good for the industry is the maximum number of people spending the maximum amount of cash.
What's good for the sport is the maximum number of people enjoying the best racing they.

The sport feeds the inddustry but they are not the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:55am
I'm curious about something... The poor old Solo is taking a slating here as being supposedly the epitome of hopelessly outdated boats that should be superceded, but I don't see an awful lot about how it should be replaced.

Why don't you guys see if you can get a consensus as to how it should be replaced/updated? However lets put just one limitation on that: the general performance profile, speed in light airs relative to strong winds, handling and so on mustn't change, because that must be a major factor in its current popularity - increasing slowly but steadily since at least the 1980s. I shall be very interested to see what you come up with.

Edited by JimC - 24 May 12 at 8:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:16am
Originally posted by Presuming Ed

Originally posted by G.R.F.

I'm taking a total newcomer, MD of a local company, I'm going to teach him to sail and crew for me in the Alto, would I have a hope in hell of doing that in a 505? No, not a chance and even now after 8 years and I'm not exactly a newcomer to sailing, would I go near anything as complex as that, it's needlessly complex in this day and age.

That's odd, I never had problems taking complete novices out on my five oh. Sail around for a bit then get them out on the wire. Not a bad first ever sailing experience. 

Bang on Ed......I almost feel the need to go and watch GRF on the water and see if he can actually sail a dinghy.  505 is a great platform to grab their attention.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:14am
What are we supposed to do...

Therein lies the problem, because what is best fir us as individuals (buy a cheap old boat and fleet race) is not what is best for sport (buy new, buy frequently, keep a thriving industry in business). This contradiction is an interesting new branch of science combining evolution and game theory, but I don't have a solution (yet!). An aggregation of classes might help (that way you could view the Lightning as a newer Solo and a C2 as an even newer one). Race off scratch, with prizes for sub-classes.

Going incommunicado now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:06am
Niceley said Pondmonkey, you have just neatly summed up all my recent posts. Also, if you sail on a smallish 'pond', like me, then light boats are not always what you need. How many times did we blow off three or four GP's in our Tasar only to have them cruise back past us into a wind shadowed mark?
At our little club Mark Giles is king, 9 Supernova's (and 2 new ones on order) with 4 Lightnings. Mark Giles sailed at West Oxford and he designed what small lake sailors wanted. Of course we should have development and innovation otherwise we stagnate but let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 8:02am
[QUOTE=fab100]So here is a question for you GRF: do you throw out your PC/ipod/TV/car/trousers/whatever and buy new every time a slightly updated version comes out? Perhaps you do.

slightly off topic but once you have upgraded to a new ipod/pc/phone/tv/ broadband ...... do you return to the previous model which was heavier / slower / more cumbersome but at least it had a good battery life?

No. 
Boats are no different; the reason there are fewer new wooden boats around is this reason - grp/epoxy/rotomould is easier to deal with on just about every level for the end user.
I have been in the workshop of a wooden boat builder and seen part complete/built merlins (and they did look like a thing of beauty Smile) that no one wants - because they are too expensive compared to grp/epoxy. Even the boatbuilder had a 'plastic' merlin....... Confused

Cheers you

only me from over the sea......
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