The Tasar v the Icon

What is wrong with a sample of ONE boat/crew ?

Well frankly where do we start  ? and for that matter why does anyone bother to teach stats at all.... So keeping it as simple as can be for a moment ..... Could I choose a single example of lets say YOUR preferred class to make a point ?  Of course not - so why do you think you can do so now in this context and expect to be taken for real ?

At my own club we do sail Icons off 990 despite the EN of 969 ... and on personal local handicap for me and my crew this is reduced by a further 13.3% -  making something roughly equating to 860 !   We don't get excited by this however or draw knee-jerk conclusions - it really is a personal handicap on a small gravel pit.  Sadly you might well think and it  proves diddly squat however in statistical terms.  Why on earth then would the local handicappers live with 990 for Icon then ?   Might just be because some of them do have a working relationship with sampling issues and stats in their 'other' lives...  Are they applying 'common sense' or are they too easily influenced and naive ?

Heck I've had a great idea .. in fact a very old and repeated one.  It would also be a bit more interesting than 'sailing around on keyboards' doing this stuff  ;-) 

Why don't we all get together and swap boats for a weekend - Call it a forumites or anarchists gathering or whatever.   'You' can borrow an Icon and see what effective imaginary PN you cail sail it too  ... and a few Icon crews get to try your ride and see if what effective PN they can derive from it - The 'winners' get bought lots of beer from the 'losers' but  we all have a lot of fun.   (The purchaser of beers to be determined by their ability or inabaility to 'beat'  the 'official' numbers of course).      

There is moaning about prevailing EN / PN numbers and there are surely legitimate queries about a system that produces them and will continue to produce them ... We can surely all do a little bit better.

Mike L.

For the record the 'approachable RYA' have not (yet) responded on two seperate occasions to emails plus phone calls from us quering PN policy with regard to new class introductions - even to say 'nothing doing' .  The RYA still seems keen however to collect class affiliation fees - even from new classes.

   

Originally posted by boatshed If you, personally, cannot sail a boat to it's handicap, you 'under achieve'.  With a new boat, this isn't the boat's fault.  It's the crew's ability.

Mike

I am well aware of statistics - basically make my living doing some quite complex statistical algorithms.

At no point did I say the Starcross icon should be the reference point for the national class EN.  I simply said that at Starcross sailing against equally good sailors from other classes and applying a crew skill factor adjustment tried and tested over ten years that 969 doesn't look to be wildly out of whack.  It was a response from the lack of data from anywhere else - apart from the odd anecdotal evidence.  Tom has just given another data point so make sure that gets in to the PYS to balance ours.

Still struggling to understand the marketing approach.

Originally posted by iGRF Sailing should be inclusive, it shouldn't matter back or front of the fleet, everyone should be welcome.

It is and they are.  Some clubs are very good at welcoming new members.   The average club racing boat is beer money.   You don't even have to own a boat to sail and join in.    Quite what this has to do with the Icon handicap, I'm not sure.

Originally posted by marke Still struggling to understand the marketing approach.

I like Mike's marketing approach which says to me  "try the boat, you might like it".   And he appears to be generous with his time and use of boats.

I think he is of the "under sell and over deliver" school of selling.   No bad thing in my book.