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The RS900 - 'our' fantasy dinghy!

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getafix View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 May 11 at 3:36pm
well done to the boat builders posting here, so much twaddle posted by folk who've seen just 1 photo and extrapolated a rant based on prejudice against one company or another... it amazes me that some people think these <well finished> carbon/composite hulls just 'happen' and don't come about as a result of carefully thought out design, planning and tooling, not to forget, no little skill in building them either! Ditto rigs, foils and sails.

As some one who usually manages to glue at least 2 or 3 things I didn't mean to, as well as the things I did, each time the epoxy comes out I'm in awe ....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 3:56pm
I've not heard any bad things about Ovington. I guess most builders will have QC issues at one time or another - that is true of all manufacturing, but if Ovi have, to base a sweeping generalization on it is pretty poor, even on a forum where people like to shoot things down.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Rupert

I've not heard any bad things about Ovington. I guess most builders will have QC issues at one time or another - that is true of all manufacturing, but if Ovi have, to base a sweeping generalization on it is pretty poor, even on a forum where people like to shoot things down.
 
Same goes for the RS comment earlier from BBSCFaithfull.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 4:33pm
Back on topic !!!
Will the 900 be released anyway even if it does not get selected for the next womens skiff and if so how many people would buy it if they fancy a two handed twin wire ???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 11 at 7:58am
Originally posted by getafix

well done to the boat builders posting here, so much twaddle posted by folk who've seen just 1 photo and extrapolated a rant based on prejudice against one company or another... it amazes me that some people think these <well finished> carbon/composite hulls just 'happen' and don't come about as a result of carefully thought out design, planning and tooling, not to forget, no little skill in building them either! Ditto rigs, foils and sails.

As some one who usually manages to glue at least 2 or 3 things I didn't mean to, as well as the things I did, each time the epoxy comes out I'm in awe ....
 
Hence my original point about expense, everything escalates when you shift from glass epoxy to carbon epoxy. Material cost is the first thing that goes up, then the protective measures you need for the guys doing the job, I'd never send anyone into a room with carbon grinding, sanding, etc going on without breathing apparutus. Know people do it in their garage but it is really dangerous. Working with the dust in the air is about the same as working with aspestos in my mind. All sanding jobs we do at work with carbon is in an extracted room. Then you have the cost of storing / curing pre-preg if you go that route (which I would) and on top of that the extra skill levels you need to do the job. I simply wouldn't give a minimum wage apprentice the job, it needs to be your top whack skilled guy. Then you have the blades, drill bits, grinding disks burning up quicker, so you rattle through your tools at a greater rate on top of the fun of the carbon dust shorting out electrics. I've seen a computer blow up in an office off a lamination room, through carbon dust shorting it's electrics. Based on the price of an 800, do you expect RS to absorb all this extra cost or pass it on? I've got a figure in my head as to how much it costs and I'll be suprised if it's lower.
 
However, the more I think about the 900, the more it appeals. When we looked at the 800, there were a lot of good points, but we had a lot of "only if's" in our mind. Only if the boat had a bigger rig, only if the boat had wings..... Seems the best out of the lot going for selection at this time, my concern is the price though. Do it for under £16k and reckon it may be a winner.
 
Also have to agree with Chris Turner, supplying a 49er / 29er with rope is almost pointless, first thing we do when we get a "new" boat is to re-rope it and fit it out to what we want. Just a waste of time giving a "standard" fit out from our point of view. Every Ovi' boat we've had has been absolutely spot on, you open the hatches up and you can see the quality of lamination on the boats we've owned. Do that with some of the non-ovi boats we've had and you'll get spikey laminate, structural bog that still needs to go off, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 11 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Menace

Originally posted by getafix

well done to the boat builders posting here, so much twaddle posted by folk who've seen just 1 photo and extrapolated a rant based on prejudice against one company or another... it amazes me that some people think these <well finished> carbon/composite hulls just 'happen' and don't come about as a result of carefully thought out design, planning and tooling, not to forget, no little skill in building them either! Ditto rigs, foils and sails.

As some one who usually manages to glue at least 2 or 3 things I didn't mean to, as well as the things I did, each time the epoxy comes out I'm in awe ....
 
Hence my original point about expense, everything escalates when you shift from glass epoxy to carbon epoxy. Material cost is the first thing that goes up, then the protective measures you need for the guys doing the job, I'd never send anyone into a room with carbon grinding, sanding, etc going on without breathing apparutus. Know people do it in their garage but it is really dangerous. Working with the dust in the air is about the same as working with aspestos in my mind. All sanding jobs we do at work with carbon is in an extracted room. Then you have the cost of storing / curing pre-preg if you go that route (which I would) and on top of that the extra skill levels you need to do the job. I simply wouldn't give a minimum wage apprentice the job, it needs to be your top whack skilled guy. Then you have the blades, drill bits, grinding disks burning up quicker, so you rattle through your tools at a greater rate on top of the fun of the carbon dust shorting out electrics. I've seen a computer blow up in an office off a lamination room, through carbon dust shorting it's electrics. Based on the price of an 800, do you expect RS to absorb all this extra cost or pass it on? I've got a figure in my head as to how much it costs and I'll be suprised if it's lower.
 
However, the more I think about the 900, the more it appeals. When we looked at the 800, there were a lot of good points, but we had a lot of "only if's" in our mind. Only if the boat had a bigger rig, only if the boat had wings..... Seems the best out of the lot going for selection at this time, my concern is the price though. Do it for under £16k and reckon it may be a winner.
 
Also have to agree with Chris Turner, supplying a 49er / 29er with rope is almost pointless, first thing we do when we get a "new" boat is to re-rope it and fit it out to what we want. Just a waste of time giving a "standard" fit out from our point of view. Every Ovi' boat we've had has been absolutely spot on, you open the hatches up and you can see the quality of lamination on the boats we've owned. Do that with some of the non-ovi boats we've had and you'll get spikey laminate, structural bog that still needs to go off, etc.


Cost isn't a massive factor IMO, remember they're aiming this at Olympic competitors and not at joe-in-the-street, and also they're building in materials that should allow said competitors to compete across a whole Olympic cycle without having to have as many hulls as they perhaps would have needed with something less stiff/long-lived.  The same logic makes for better cost-of-ownership to non-Olympians who may purchase new, or perhaps better, second hand, if the boat gets into production.

I know what you mean about the carbon dust, not from building boats but from motor racing! a few well know motor racing teams have computers built for industrial environments with sealed front panels and dust-filters because of the carbon-dust issue... amazing how far that stuff spreads when you use an air-powered wheel-nut gun on a wheel with carbon disks that have taken a hammering for a few (or many) laps previous! Power-hungry servers running telemetry SW love to suck that stuff in!

Agree on your point about lifting the hatch and looking inside, it can be very revealing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 11 at 12:31pm
A friend of mine manufactures explosion proof computers, they sell very well. INTEC plc.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 11 at 5:15pm
Thinking some more about the 2nd hand market, this might be an ideal 'bandit' as the top pro's won't sail much handicap racing at club level, leaving those with some talent to pick up decent boats 2nd hand during the Olympic cycle and get some decent results in!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 11 at 5:39pm
The thing that I wouldn't minded seeing is for them to have evaluated the skiff position completely. The argument that the 49er is male only now is based on the fact that it is apparently difficult to sail as a mixed partnership. I disagree with this point completely, but they could have said lets assess this problem and re-evaluate the position. Then you may have ended up with the 9er being deselected  and something like the 900 being put in it's place. Then you could have an open fleet, without the requirement for two slots. Alternatively, you could really upset the apple cart and go for three slots, male, female and mixed and drop the Finn or move to mixed/open 470.
 
I know some people are going to shout and scream about this statement, but to non-sailing public, boats like the 49er appeal. I can ask anyone to name a boat and 90% of the time the names that come up are Laser, 49er, Hobie Cat, Topper. If you want more people outside the sport to get vaguely attracted to it, something like a skiff helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote simsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 11 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by BBSCFaithfull

Looks like a b**tardised 800 that has mated with a 49er. With shoddy RS build quality. Not sure i'd want to be stuck with one. Give it to ovi to build properly.


Wow. You really do come out with some crap. I use to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm usually just a reader of the forum, as I love to hear what everyone on hear as to say. However, the utter drivel that you post, deters others and myself from bothering to post anything at all.

Grow up mate.
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