Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Devotti Single Hander |
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sten ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 208 |
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no its half a meter smaller :) specially made for the Devoti-one
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Status ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Nov 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 114 |
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I think it looks really good. Would love to have a go in one.
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Solo 2257 - The Joker
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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That upwind stuff just proves my point further, it's way too front loaded.
Imagine that in the sea in just half choppy stuff, it's so destined for multiple nose dives and that's just upwind. OK so off wind the kite will help keep the nose up a bit, but still, Why dont they just bring the whole shebang back a yard, think how much faster it would truck with all that wetted surface released. Edited by G.R.F. |
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Skiffman ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 291 |
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have you seen the size of the bow on it, theres no danger of nosediving
that... anyway we were out in Palma last week and saw these out everyday, fair bit faster than the finns upwind. They do look quite odd though, it looks like theres just too much waterline width its looks about as wide as a 49er! The main is massive aswell its going to need alot of weight on the side to get it to semi-plane upwind. I think its a bit too much like a finn but then what do i know, i do not know why it does not look more like a skiff so it would go like one and have a t-foil rudder if they are going all out. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I like the look of it more seeing it go upwind.
GRF, for someone who says he hates skiff type boats, all your suggestions for how it might be "better" seem to be taking it down that route? If you bring the rig back, the boom needs to be shorter, so to get the same area, you need a taller mast, which then gives more healing moment, which means it needs to be wider to counteract it, making it harder to sail. A modern version of the low aspect Finn type rig is a great idea, and while theoretically less efficient upwind should be great for downwind blasting. I think the boat isn't designed for 70kg short people like me, though. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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The number of times that's figured on my 'ideal s/hander' desk top doodling, it also solves the issue of not having to bring the mast back on a track to reduce wetted surface off wind, but it has some issues with the wiggly stick thing and where to put the rudder bit, given the fin on the Kona has to sit on the stepped bit of the hull. However, one thing at a time, first get my Asbo back which should happen Friday, then see if I can't talk sense into some of these boat folk about what 'modern' windsurf thinking could do for a boat eh ![]() |
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Daniel Holman ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 997 |
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"Front loading" is a bit of a misnomer in this case. Its not like a longboard with a track where you're hanging down off the boom and putting a lot of weight down through the mastfoot, and the mastfoot position has a big effect on how a long (or short)board peforms and feels because of the balance of forces. Having the rig that far forward doesn't have a big effect on trim at all. The mast will weigh, say 8kg which in the context of the entire system of say 180kg sailing weight is small. For constant rake the f/a posn of the rig has a negligible effect on nosediving. Rake is far more pertinent. (the reason why kites keep the bow up is due to the "rake" of the luff meaning that a component of the force vector is pulling upwards). No boats nosedive upwind, it might just take a bit of water over the bow but that'll just wash straight out of the back. If the whole affair (inc sailor) was moved back for aesthetic reasons, the bow would be out of the water losing waterline length and increasing wetted surface both of which are bad in the 5kt ish condition that this will go upwind in, although fine for the "planing downwind stuff." You could shift the volume back to mitigate this but that would result in a non optimal lcb position and hydrostatics which would be really sticky. I'm sure the D-one is fine downwind because of the really full bow and the kite. I'm guessing that the bow is as full as it is because the wings are shorter than ideal so that they fit in a car boot. The weight equalisation should work ok to get equal righting moments, esp if there are correctors to keep the sailing displacements equivalent. No doubt that its still a big guys boat though, as befits something that Luca designed initially around hs own requirements. 11m2 is getting towards the limit of what can reasonably be handled by one person. the finn-inspired rig is efficient upwind despite the low aspect ratio, when there is a large amount of sail area for the given righting moment, as there always will be on a s/h hiking boat. I must admit I'd though about a stepped type hull a la Kona or Exocet Warp X 380 for something which has 2 modal speeds upwind and down. Poss more elegant would be an IC type stern which runs clean despite being immersed at low speeds (double ended), but still behaves ideally like a transom at higher speeds. Hard to reconcile on a shorter boat where you'd be taking a lot of volume out of the stern. |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Well not wishing to stand corrected without a counter correction but the
forces on a longboard mastrack when hook in are exactly opposite, if the uJ broke the bottom of the rig would fly up in fact (depending on the sail configuration) but in any rate there is no signifcant downward pressure, if you want m/f pressure you have normally to apply it as no doubt instructors will have told y'all in various circumstances, anyway back to the D1. The rig weight itself is forward and that weight includes the sail, and boom and I'd bet is a good 15 -20 kilos or I'm not the most handsome man in this room right now. The sailor also appears to be forward of the Cof E, making the stern light which I guess is all down to the sail plan and agree the upwind would not necessarily be diving but wave ploughing, very irritating nonetheless. The thing about moving the sailing position aft, you can always go forward when its light, but there's no way that thing can be sailed from far enough back if its windy imo. |
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timeintheboat ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615 |
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I'm all for boats for the lardier challenged - its a pity that this looks to fall into the same price bracket as the Phantom but hopefully not the Finn!
It's a good concept that has been functionally implemented. I reckon it could be OK on restricted waters as well If I had the money (I don't) I'd take a punt and have one. |
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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Noah ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 29 Dec 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 611 |
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6k for a new Phant? - I wish. If that includes wheels & covers they'll be queueing out the door |
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Nick
D-Zero 316 |
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