The Tasar v the Icon

   Well today if we'd been sailing off 1000 and hadn't hit the finish mark I'm reliably informed we'd have won, as it was, we drifted across the line 2nd boat, the tide helped us kiss the mark and forced a re round, the Hornet, who'd been pursuing us with its kite up on what had been a windward finish also hit the mark, then a Phantom a  raft of Lasers  and the other Contender did it for us.

It had been a bit of a laugh though and we've dialled this clew first jib lark, that works well, but would be enhanced with an end fitting on the pole apparently which is missing. I'd also changed splitties and boardies, new and old so the slipping about wasn't so apparent, it's still there but less the problem it was, if this were mine I'd have to wax it.

We'd had probably the worse start I'd ever performed in a favourable tide, but managed to claw back when the leading bunch went to high on the first reach, the rest of the race was shifts 180 degrees, the tail enders catching up, fetches to the mark and all the usual bollox when the wind swirls around, so again not a great test, but this boat is growing on me, lots of tactical options and we hung on to a Contender, but only because he wasn't out on the wire.

I'm wondering what a fair Yardstick for this boat is, it'll battle a Merlin but it's not really quicker, and we know a Merlin is a bit of a bandit on 990 the Contenders and the Hornet have the legs on it at 973 and 980, so it's got to be between 990 and 1000, it's quicker than a Phantom, but not by much, think I'd pitch it at 995.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Jul 14 at 8:00pm

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iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Topic: The Tasar v the Icon Posted: 27 Jul 14 at 2:04pm
	Well today if we'd been sailing off 1000 and hadn't hit the finish mark I'm reliably informed we'd have won, as it was, we drifted across the line 2nd boat, the tide helped us kiss the mark and forced a re round, the Hornet, who'd been pursuing us with its kite up on what had been a windward finish also hit the mark, then a Phantom a raft of Lasers and the other Contender did it for us. It had been a bit of a laugh though and we've dialled this clew first jib lark, that works well, but would be enhanced with an end fitting on the pole apparently which is missing. I'd also changed splitties and boardies, new and old so the slipping about wasn't so apparent, it's still there but less the problem it was, if this were mine I'd have to wax it. We'd had probably the worse start I'd ever performed in a favourable tide, but managed to claw back when the leading bunch went to high on the first reach, the rest of the race was shifts 180 degrees, the tail enders catching up, fetches to the mark and all the usual bollox when the wind swirls around, so again not a great test, but this boat is growing on me, lots of tactical options and we hung on to a Contender, but only because he wasn't out on the wire. I'm wondering what a fair Yardstick for this boat is, it'll battle a Merlin but it's not really quicker, and we know a Merlin is a bit of a bandit on 990 the Contenders and the Hornet have the legs on it at 973 and 980, so it's got to be between 990 and 1000, it's quicker than a Phantom, but not by much, think I'd pitch it at 995. Edited by iGRF - 27 Jul 14 at 8:00pm
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blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 10:41pm
	No explanation is really needed ... We now know you have never owned an Alfa at least ...

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 8:34pm
	I've seen plenty of Alfa's by the side of the road with the bonnet up, what are you saying? Is there a dinghy AA that'll fetch us back when it breaks down?
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blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 8:11pm
	Hi Greame A decent, sorted and fully competitive Merlin will beat a decent, sorted and competitive Icon... Not all the time of course but often enough. Upwind ? About the same depending on wind strength. Across the wind ? - Well Icon of course and not much will trouble it anyway on tighter reaches. Downwind ? - Merlin of course ... that 3rd sail must be useful for something ... some of the time surely ! ;-) The handicap ? Well now you are asking a completely different sort of question and I suspect you know the range of answers you will now elicit already. As a matter of fact I will say that Icon has attracted a number of likeable and capable oddballs so far .. not 'regular' guys and crews in most cases and quite a few really really really do know what they are doing. The boat is quick for sure in capable hands and the same crews will and have often done well in other classes in the past as well. But I'm not going to rise any further to this particular point - it has been done to death already. You should never sail or buy a boat because it has an 'easy' handicap .. because it can and will change ... as many do andwill find out. Get into classes you like sailing above all else ... and then race them and enjoy them. If handicap 'coffee mugs' turn you on then look elsewhere .. but if you like Alfa's on the road you might also like Icon and if you have never driven an Alfa or sailed an Icon ...well it is about time you tried one or other of them ! life is a bit on the short side for too many compromises. Mike L.

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 7:27pm
	"Decent Merlins will beat you on the water round the complete course ..... they should." Really? When our handicap is 969 and there's is 990, so how's that then? Could you explain that please? To trevor my normal crew, he's an intelligent person, a man running a business employing hundreds, help me tell him why the merlin should beat us yet our handicap is faster than theirs, oh and while you're at it, the man that would have won that race who was on rescue boat duty, but would have been all over us like a bad rash in his Contender, tell me how is it his handicap is also slower than ours. Help me out here, I'm trying to explain it to grown up businessmen from the real world. You know, the type that have the money and the disposable income to buy these things. Edited by iGRF - 25 Jul 14 at 7:28pm
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blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 6:05pm
	Main can be sheeted 'almost' central... it is the jib handling that sounds like it needs a bit of TLC and attention until you can both 'see it' instinctively. The strop set-up on the back is critical .. a rear traveller is not needed as you do have a jib (which helps of course) and you should not really be block to block in the vast majority of conditions. Most Icon newbies oversheet at first ... Coming out of tacks you do not pin the main in .. use kicker a bit more and do not sheet in hard until you have decent speed on - let the boat accelerate and then bring it up tighter onto the wind. You have to play the main and dump enough to keep the boat 'on its feet' in decent breeze - the jib really is large enough to keep you tracking forward very effectively as each gust hits .. so keep it reasonably level and moving forward with an exagerated 'main dump' as you learn the boat.... It does not have to be totally flat (like say a Merlin) but you should still aim at 'flat.' So use the kicker a bit more than you might think and dump/sheet the main more than you are used to .....the sheet loads are pretty light so it is no hassle really. Decent Merlins will beat you on the water round the complete course ..... they should. But if they make a couple of mistakes you should 'ave most of them when they do... Being that much more complex the potential for making those mistakes is of course a tad higher. Not a 'knock' that one - just the reality. And sort out the non-slip situation somehow - it is either your kit or the boat needs a 'sort'. Does not matter the cause really.... feeling 'secure' is faster ! Mike L.

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 4:42pm
	NO I clocked that right from word go, went out of the start bloc to block and went nowhere, spent the rest of the race finding the sweet spot between block to block stuffed high (rear traveller could sort that out so i don't have to think about it a la D Zero) and footed off with a bit of an open jib till we found it, she's very lively and you can at least 'feel' when you're getting it right, I liked that. By the end of the race upwind we had them. That's the good thing about racing someone you know and race all the time, having said that they've been a bit off their pace lately after the broken shroud incident, I don't like racing this close, it's hard work and we were having to pull every sht trick in the book almost like racing lake style, but John enjoyed it, particularly one neat watercall at the end of the tight reach, we've got a sticker on the back we introduced them to verbally as well.. Royal Dirty Northern b*tards S.C. they loved that - not. Edited by iGRF - 25 Jul 14 at 4:44pm
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blaze720 Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635	Post Options Post Reply Quote blaze720 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 3:26pm
	.... and there SHOULD be a small but decent halyard turning block (Harken on the spec list) at the top of the jib. If missing it is well worth replacing or getting one sent to you. Jib tension ? Not a problem and not needed bar-tight ... Icon can even climb up plate glass if set up correctly. DO NOT pinch though except for tactical advantage if you need to squeeze things up. VMG is usually better slightly lower and as often as not see you planing or marginal planing upwind if conditions suit. Also coming out of each tack DO NOT oversheet - you will kill the main as I suspect you are already doing. The front 300mm of the jib foot should follow the edge of the deck until speed builds up - crews occasionally seem to think if sheeting is 'good' then lots of sheeting must be 'even better'. (Same thing applies to Tasars as well btw).. Next sail try this out and feel the difference - you can come in from this default once the speed is there but choke the main off at your peril ! Mike L. PS - I can see this thread sub-part (the GRF) one will get even more interesting with time

iGRF Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Visit Member's Homepage Really should get out more Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499	Post Options Post Reply Quote iGRF Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 2:57pm
	That's disgusting kneewrecker, I've never broken wind in front of anyone ever, hadn't you realised I'm anally retentive.
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kneewrecker Send Private Message Find Member's Posts Really should get out more Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586	Post Options Post Reply Quote kneewrecker Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 25 Jul 14 at 2:41pm
	maybe you farted and a little bit of lube came out?