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Contender443 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 May 12 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by pondmonkey

There's a little rule I got told by a very good sailor; if you're not strong enough to pull up the beach, you're not strong enough to sail it.  


Confused That's me out then...
That depends on the beach - a slight slope using a concrete slipway into a reservoir is a different kettle of fish to a steep shingle beech such as Hythe or Eastbourne.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

There's a little rule I got told by a very good sailor; if you're not strong enough to pull up the beach, you're not strong enough to sail it.  


Confused That's me out then...
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 2:43pm
There's a little rule I got told by a very good sailor; if you're not strong enough to pull up the beach, you're not strong enough to sail it.  

A Contender is a notoriously heavy dinghy for its size boat.  That gives it the momentum to glide through waves and cut the water rather than being chucked around the froth on top of it.  They're a big wind boat, originally conceived for big wind regatta sailing.  It's the singlehanded 505.

I wouldn't be so keen to lose all that weight and compromise the solid build and sailing profile, especially when some decent beach wheels (and maybe a jockey wheel) will solve all your launching issues.


Edited by pondmonkey - 24 May 12 at 2:45pm
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Posts: 823 		Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by G.R.F.

 

Heavy things very soon become too tiresome to bother with anyway and folk move on.

light things that fall over and can't get off the beach without help can also  Wink

But you're missing a fundamental attribute to what most sailing folks actually do.  The take their new toy to their sailing club, park it up and only ever roll it down a slope to the water.  As long as the launching trolley is well balanced most people can manage most boats.  Heavy, cheap rotomoulds that don't fall over as soon as they hit the water are great.  These people rarely have any intention to drag them around the country for racing regattas.  They don't even want to take them home for a winter project every year either.  I've just recommended a Laser Vago to a very good friend for that exact reason.  It can be left at the side of his mountain lake all year round.

That's fine if you sail on a pond with a nice concrete slope. If the slope you are trying to roll it down, or up, is a shingle beach then weight matters a lot! In fact for me that's the place it matters. Once it's in the water all the other Contenders are the same weight, so what's the problem? If it's on a road base a few kg is not going to make any real difference as far as towing goes. Mast weight matters, changing from a old alloy mast to a lighter carbon one makes a big difference to righting from capsize, that's an immediately appreciable benefit, but what I really want is way of making it much lighter when it's on the beach Ermm or a big wheel trolley
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Kev M

Without wishing to go too far off topic, what is it about the Vareo that make it so bad going into wind?

how well it goes downwind....  LOL

It tricks your senses and speed perception.

In truth, foot off, hike hard, kicker on, cunningham down and if it's not dead flat then it's dead... I could hold a club raced laser mark to mark, but I'd be sailing wider angles, ever so slightly faster.
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Kev M

Without wishing to go too far off topic, what is it about the Vareo that make it so bad going into wind?

I've only sailed one on holiday (windy Turkey) It was at least as hard work upwind as my laser (it's similar in the beam) but you get downwind far quicker - so you spend commensurately more time grunting upwind.

The 100 of course faces the same issue but the additional beam helps and it is ergonomically really comfortable
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 2:03pm
Without wishing to go too far off topic, what is it about the Vareo that make it so bad going into wind?
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 1:50pm
Well my own living memory of the nineties recession folks had two options - cut back and survive, whether or not you think you need to, no one knows what's around the corner.  Or keep on spending regardless, thinking the light will magically appear at the end of the tunnel.   It doesn't, people think economies go up and down like a roller coaster and all they need do is simply 'ride it out', sadly they don't.   Economies shift trajectory and markets change their landscapes and dynamics.  You never get back what was, with any luck you simply get a more prosperous future somewhere different, judging when that day will be... who knows.

As for retailing expensive dinghies... well if I were in that game I'd be diversifying as much as possible (to stay afloat) and looking at a completely different model for when the sun shines again.  A mix of short and long term leasing might be an option.  Sell off the 3 year old boats to emerging markets and keep your repeat pipeline and prospect generation as full as possible with minimal financial commitment from the customer.


Edited by pondmonkey - 24 May 12 at 1:57pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 1:50pm

To think the challenges faced by the sport are defined by the product is to completely misunderstand the nature of the sport and how peoples behaviors have changed.

 

People don't commit a life time to a sport (or club) any more, well most don't.

 

We seem to have changed to a nation of "dabblers" people who try stuff have a go, then move on.

 

For those people there are plenty of roto moulds lined up at the schools and holiday centres.

 

For the enthusiast who is prepared to dedicate more time there is a huge range of options already on the market.

 

I think Fab100 has captured all the key issues a few pages earlier.

 

Seems GRF is on the search for the holy grail of sailing dinghies that is fast, light, cheap and any numpty could sail it … as has been pointed out such a beast doesn’t exist and it’s existence is precluded by the laws of physics unless you are prepared to get a multihull.

 

I don’t know why you have an aversion to them but they seem the perfect solution for you and I think you kind of know that having designed a faux multi in the coal barge.

 



Edited by 2547 - 24 May 12 at 1:51pm
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 12 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

 

Do you think it will any time soon? 

No, it's getting worse daily, and there is worse to come. Now the banks are coming round to dealing with the real Sub Prime lending on a National scale in Southern Europe and stealing themselves for the shock to come and the only place they can go for funds is us in the small business and private sector and they are milking us dry.

We're sandwiched between a market scared sh*tless by a gormless media, a bunch of politico's that have no idea what makes things go round, a maelstrom of politicking on a European scale which I suspect is going to take nothing less than revolution to sort out.

I've been a risk taker all my commercial life, but never before have I been so risk averse than I am at present, even if I had that golden product, I wouldn't risk marketing it now, my guess for when this sorts itself out, 2015 at the earliest.

Truth is we avoided what should have been a slump in 2001-2 with the dot com bust, but we didn't instead we went on an orgy of complex financial deals and debt, playing to a market driven by algorithms controlled by noone, so not even the masters of the universe truly understand how it works now and until we undo the ten years of boom with an equivalent bust, i can see no light at the end of the tunnel I fear.

Normally niche markets wear quite well through recessions, I've lived through several now, from the three day week of the seventies through Thatchers eighties and Majors nineties (note it's always the Tories that ram a recession home, usually after a spell of labour indulgence)but this is the first that isn't necessarily within the control of the incumbent politicians. The "Markets" are a machine now run by software and perception and the perception is all bad.


Edited by G.R.F. - 24 May 12 at 12:23pm
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