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Black no sugar View Drop Down
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Posts: 3941 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Useless facts of the day...
    Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 12:14pm

Originally posted by turnturtle

pedantic...
Nope, only accurate...

I'm with you, Pierre, I prefer allusions to elusions... Easier to keep my illusions...

Is that delusion?

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Posts: 97 		Post Options Post Options   Quote phantom_iv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Black no sugar

I'm with you, Pierre, I prefer allusions to elusions... Easier to keep my illusions...

Is that delusion?



That's certainly contributed to my confusion....
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Blobby View Drop Down
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Posts: 779 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Black no sugar

Originally posted by turnturtle

pedantic...
Nope, only accurate...

I'm with you, Pierre, I prefer allusions to elusions... Easier to keep my illusions...

Is that delusion?

No - just reality although I am somewhat disillusioned the you didn't pick up TT's lack of grammatical accuracy. I believe the response at that point in the converstaion should have been "Pedant".
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 12:26pm
Gosh BnS, aren't we an alliterative bunch today !!!!  Sad I know, but it really cheers me up to think that people actually pay attention to these things.


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Black no sugar View Drop Down
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Posts: 3941 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Black no sugar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 1:26pm

I'm just as sad, you know.. Last weekend, a friend and I mutually congratulated each other for our use of "fewer people"... Similarly, you won't catch me at a checkout with "10 items or less" .
That comes with learning English as a foreign language; deluded teachers cannot conceive that native-speakers only allude to grammar!   

I'd better shut up now.

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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 2:13pm

Originally posted by Pierre

Bumble, re: average weekly income.  Is that before or after tax?
As I understand it is before tax but it is just a ball park figure so I wouldn't read too much into it.
Originally posted by turnturtle


Ah yes Bumble, you are falling into the trap of 'north south divide myth'-you are failing to take account of some major social demographics our dear friends in the ONS don't record.  When you take into consideration the full picture, you'll see I'm right:

1) Alimony is higher in the south- wife's official income is usually singnificantly lower than her ex-hubby therefore percentage split hits harder to the main breadwinner
Firstly, the GDHI index is the 'Gross disposable household income index' which, by definition takes into account wife/hubby differences by dealing with 'households', not individuals.
Originally posted by TT



2) The Child Support Agency regional offices are more effective up there (their employees value their public sector jobs, unlike down here where civil servants are too stressed out to work a full day)
The pay scale for public sector jobs is defined by the regional index as supplied by the stats office and so, is consistent with their figure nationally and as it depends on the figure, it cannot be considered as an variable.
Originally posted by TT


3) Weekly income figures are based on revenue declarations, not cash-in-hand income from rogue trading and wheeler dealing-
True, and this figure can be treated with caution as such. But with what you say in mind the variations between this and the true figure will depend and the regional variations in undeclared income - I would eat my hat if the revenue didn't have some idea as to what this figure was.
Originally posted by TT

 come on, how many 'car washing franchises' seriously generate enough cash for a typical Audley Edge lifestyle- Porsche Boxter; designer rags you're too old for; toni & guy haircuts; 2 holidays a year; Trophy Wife maintainence to keep her looking no more than 10 years older than your eldest teenage daughter; another teenage daughter who genuinely believes Harvey Nic's started in Manchester and a career in glamour modelling is a viable future....

I take it you are being funny....ha ha. I have worked in Alderley Edge (that is what you mean right?) and I can tell you it is nothing but Southerners as far as the eye can see. In my home in Macc we refer to Alderely as a London disease.
Originally posted by TT



4) Cost of living lower- well last time I went to Ramsbottom i still only spent £1.80 on a pint.  I had to hide in the corner as it was lager, but snuck out for a curry for only a fiver- including Keema Naan and an Onion Bhaji
Do you think a cheaper pint is caused by a lower income, or another reason why people in Ramsbottom are so rich?
Originally posted by TT



5) Northern education starts in the home- kids are taught how to gamble effectively from Gram'ma, source imported duty free ciggies from Gram'pa and drink cheaper beer by Phil (mum's new boyfriend 15 years her junior)  Northern kids are brought up to understand the harsh reality of life- they know they get nought for nothing.  Us southern softies are a generation of latch-key kids, getting our education as we go along- like in pre-school breakfast clubs or the ultimate in kid-glove environments- university: a little bubble of happiness before the shocking reality of modern life sets in on your 16k-a-year graduate training scheme in Swindon.
 
No comment.

Finally it is worth noting the Stats office do have access to selected bank records and capital gains transfers which is a modifying factor for their 'wealth distribution' figures. While the GDHI does exclude houses and unspendable moneys it still takes into account some of the wealth involved. The average index for UK is 100 - obviously so London at 164 is more than twice the average disposable houshold income of Yorkshire. It would take some pretty big ' consideration of the full picture' to find an anomally of double the spending power of a region you say is poorer...... put that in your southern pipe and see if you can light it.



Edited by Bumble
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Harry44981! View Drop Down
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Posts: 736 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 4:05pm

 take it you are being funny....ha ha. I have worked in Alderley Edge (that is what you mean right?) and I can tell you it is nothing but Southerners as far as the eye can see. In my home in Macc we refer to Alderely as a London disease.

similar with Prestbury and Wimslow.
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Posts: 302 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bumble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 4:32pm

I'm so sorry. People in the South are fantastic when you consider how they struggle with higher costs, eeking a living which doesn't meet their needs.

Yeah... right. It's a cycle; earn more, spend more... costs more - earn more, spend more.... costs more and so on, and on, and on.

Please don't use the lord's phrase (Winner's) in vain. He was trying to sell you insurance, the ultimate product of capitalism.

Originally posted by turnturtle



STATISTICS- 'lie, damn lies...'; quote from someone with dare I say, a tad more intellect than you or I combined; and almost certainly a clearer understanding of how statistics are used to justify social perceptions and political agendas.
You are right, but in this case the government will do everything in their statisically bending ability to show that the South/North earning gap is a minimum. As I said they use this as a base for pay scale for public sector workers and they want to pay less, not more. Further, the divide would make the government look bad as growth in one area constitutes bad policy making.
Originally posted by TT



BLACK ECONOMY-  I'm sure Gordon would love to know if you can produce a genuine quantifiable statistic for us; especilly if you can subjugate the data by regional analysis...  I can assure you there are no real ways for any administration/RDA to know the true scale of this activity, even one as well funded as the northern regions.  That's kinda the point really isn't it- it an unknown variable: visible on the street but impenetrable for HM Revenue & Customs.  As for bank account tracers, well no sensible person is going to bung their undeclared, untaxed income into a Bank Account now are they?
Gordon the Chancellor or Gordon on the forum? Good point and you are right, much of the lost revenue is so because people are dishonest. I refer to my last post - is this level of dishonesty greater in the north than in the southern regions? If so can it account for such a big gap? As it can't be counted how can it be a reason for or against any argument.
Originally posted by TT



AUDLEY EDGE-  I googled to check spelling actually, I guess I should have known better than to trust the The Telegraph (ps The Telegraph is a larger-than-average newspaper we get down here)
Check again using the word Cheshire - there is no Audley Edge. As for reading the Torygraph, I refuse to entertain the notion.... utter zionistic drivel loaded with self ratifying nonsense for the upper middleclass of the south.
Originally posted by TT



I've never been to Macclesfield or Audley Edge,
you don't say
Originally posted by TT

 only seen it portrayed on Channel 4- by your own admission perception equals reality on my point and as far as I'm concerned if their permenant residence is 'up there' then they're northern mate-  'London Disease???' poppycock dear Bumble poppycock- they wouldn't survive five minutes in the capital; the Australians would eat 'em alive.
That is very funny.

You are right in all.... stats don't mean a thing. I can only speak from my experience and heart when I say

'People from the south are the most complacent, biggoted and unfriendly half of the UK.... they make me appologetic to visitors. I consider them the spoilt bratt of the nation with wealth pouring from their pockets, and nothing but sour self back slapping pouring from their mouths. It takes twice the muscles in your face to frown, and southerners give it a good workout - all the time.

Right, I can't reply, it's late here and Ive gotta go to bed. Maybe we can continue this tomorrow? Sweet dreams everyone.

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Posts: 1100 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tack'ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 4:46pm

North south devide....mmm.  Well as I come form rural East Anglia and for a period of time lived in Devonport in Plymouth I find the blanket assumption of the South being better off extremelly near sighted.  Areas of deprevation exist regardless of geographical position and I assure you some places down south would bite your hand off for even a small portion of the money that is being invested by Governmemt agencies in Newcastle for example.  There will always be the better off and the worse off regardless of area.  I am a DINK (dual income no kids) with 2 good graduate wages and I couldn't afford a 3 bed semi in Jesmond, Darras Hall, Tynemouth or Gosfoth and I am paying as much as I could where I actual own.  The whole issue is extemelly local, two identical houses in Alnwick and Amble who are 5 miles apart woulld sell for vastly different prices, in the region of double if it is in Alnwick. 

I find the constant wingeing by Midlanders (Sheffield, Manchester etc.) about how tough they have it a little tedious.  Interestingly virtually no one up here ever complains about how better off southerns are (runs for cover)

 
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lasergurl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 06 at 5:37pm

just to add to the useless facts... or.. in this case random..

matthias goering has just converted to judaism  - matthais is the grandson of heir goering who was the nazi party leader.. I think...

=? if I'm wrong.. I apologise. it's just what I heard today.

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