Lee-Bow..... Windsurfers...etc (Dons tin hat)

Originally posted by sargesail Originally posted by iGRF That's funny, it's the first time I've seen you two turkeys active in quite a while.. 18 Sep: I wonder if the roots of the myth, as set out in the seminal early works of dinghy tactics, can be found in tidal shifts in the apparent wind. Imagine 3 boats sailing on starboard tack into current which is directly against their average close hauled course. They all achieve the same VMG through the water despite sailing different angles. Footing Fred has the tide on his weather now. Average Andy sails straight into the current and pointing Pete sails high. Understanding/accepting tide as a conveyor means we know that there is no difference in their VMG over the ground if their VMG through the water is equal. But when they encounter more tide (from the same direction) they all also experience s lift. The same lift. But pointing Pete looks like he gains most and Footing Fred loses most. Actually, if the wind doesn’t shift again and the tide doesn’t change then those are real gains and loses. Of course the opposite is true if the tide lessens. But we tend to focus on the lessons of success not failure. I can thus see how sailors might perceive empirical evidence for the Lee bow myth. I might have said more but what’s the point when the LBE goalposts are moved so regularly.

Course unusually in these circumstances a lull feels like a lift and a gust like a header.

Originally posted by iGRF That's funny, it's the first time I've seen you two turkeys active in quite a while..

18 Sep:

I wonder if the roots of the myth, as set out in the seminal early works of dinghy tactics, can be found in tidal shifts in the apparent wind.

Imagine 3 boats sailing on starboard tack into current which is directly against their average close hauled course. They all achieve the same VMG through the water despite sailing different angles.

Footing Fred has the tide on his weather now. Average Andy sails straight into the current and pointing Pete sails high.

Understanding/accepting tide as a conveyor means we know that there is no difference in their VMG over the ground if their VMG through the water is equal.

But when they encounter more tide (from the same direction) they all also experience s lift. The same lift. But pointing Pete looks like he gains most and Footing Fred loses most. Actually, if the wind doesn’t shift again and the tide doesn’t change then those are real gains and loses.

Of course the opposite is true if the tide lessens. But we tend to focus on the lessons of success not failure. I can thus see how sailors might perceive empirical evidence for the Lee bow myth.

I might have said more but what’s the point when the LBE goalposts are moved so regularly.

This thread shows how difficult it is to discuss such things without a pint in hand and beermats to doodle on.

If the tide is exactly coming from close-hauled on one tack, so pinching up 2 degrees will change the flow of water to hitting the lee side of the bow does anything at all, I'd be astonished. If choosing when is the best time to have the tide on the nose and when abeam on the other tack is what is being discussed, then undoubtedly there will be advantages going one way or the other depending upon differing flow, wind bends and all the other things that make the moving carpet confusing to pond sailors. It's one of the main reasons my results are worse at sea venues.

That's funny, it's the first time I've seen you two turkeys active in quite a while..

This thread is a perfect example of why this forum is on its last legs.