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A new class of dinghy?

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    Posted: 20 Sep 18 at 10:00pm
I’ve always been surprised that none of the builders quote done form of stability figure. Seems to me a 4’ waterline beam is very stable, 3’ quite wobbly, less than 3’ unstable.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 12:40am
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by JimC

A few years before he departed this place Frank Bethwaite proposed a re-rigged and generally updated "Tasar Mk 2" but the class association turned it down.

Ironic that fans of a boat ahead of its time didn't want another; they chose to stick with the one that had become current ...

And what would it have given us? We may have been 30 seconds faster around a course, therefore we'd have done less sailing. Not a great advantage IMHO.

If speed was what counts, we wouldn't be sailing Tasars. We in the Tasar stronghold appreciate other qualities, like the 100+ active boats in my state, and the club fleets of 10 or so boats every weekend. Why would we want to tear the class apart, destroy thousands of dollars of value in every boat, and increase the cost of having a top-class boat by about $15,000 merely in order to look trendy for five minutes or to finish 30 seconds earlier?

Finally, if people want to "stay current" in a two-person two-sail hiking dinghy there are some excellent boats to sail, such as the NS14 and N12. If staying current is the thing then such classes, which allow much more modern hulls than that of the Tasar, are the obvious choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 7:10am
I think the idea of a fixed carbon pole to replace the (absurdly heavy) aluminium wing would be not to get a speed advantage it to make it simpler, thus opening it up to more punters.  But I can fully understand why the idea was rejected - I can’t imagine the RS200s adopting a carbon mast any time soon - it’s just more money and more maintenance.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 7:20am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by JimC

A few years before he departed this place Frank Bethwaite proposed a re-rigged and generally updated "Tasar Mk 2" but the class association turned it down.

Ironic that fans of a boat ahead of its time didn't want another; they chose to stick with the one that had become current ...

And what would it have given us? We may have been 30 seconds faster around a course, therefore we'd have done less sailing. Not a great advantage IMHO.

If speed was what counts, we wouldn't be sailing Tasars. We in the Tasar stronghold appreciate other qualities, like the 100+ active boats in my state, and the club fleets of 10 or so boats every weekend. Why would we want to tear the class apart, destroy thousands of dollars of value in every boat, and increase the cost of having a top-class boat by about $15,000 merely in order to look trendy for five minutes or to finish 30 seconds earlier?

Finally, if people want to "stay current" in a two-person two-sail hiking dinghy there are some excellent boats to sail, such as the NS14 and N12. If staying current is the thing then such classes, which allow much more modern hulls than that of the Tasar, are the obvious choice.

I guess this is the reason why classes have splintered in the past - especially across continental lines.

You both make very valid points - which one I’d adopt personally would depend very much where I lived!    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 7:22am
Originally posted by Chris 249

And what would it have given us? We may have been 30 seconds faster around a course, therefore we'd have done less sailing. Not a great advantage IMHO.

Well, as I recall FBs rationale was that classes have a life cycle - as is often demonstrated (although for some classes its 5 years, some its 50+) - and sales had dropped to a level where it appeared that the Tasar was approaching the terminal decline. In that situation a mid life upgrade is one option to prolong the life of the class.

As it happens it seems almost as if the very existence of the proposal was enough to give the CA a kick up the posterior, and, possibly aided by the new rags, the class is still running along at a dozen boats a year judging by ISAF/WS stats. Not stellar, but apparently just about sustainable. You could argue, then, that the proposal did the trick!


Edited by JimC - 21 Sep 18 at 7:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 7:58am
I guess it’s too early to tell, but do reckon new classes these days seem to have shorter life cycles, or has there always been a boom/bust growth pattern for new launches?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 8:29am
Originally posted by turnturtle

I guess it’s too early to tell, but do reckon new classes these days seem to have shorter life cycles, or has there always been a boom/bust growth pattern for new launches?

If anything I'd say the opposite. Back in the 60s every little local builder wanted to start up their own class which they hoped would - dare I say it - go viral - and make their fortune. Some stuck, a few thrived, most disappeared almost without a trace. There's so much more investment now than there was when it was merely a question of setting up a few building frames that I think builders are a lot more conservative.
Also boats are so much more long lived. As teenagers my contemporaries mostly had ratty old sheds that must have been [gasp] around 10 to 15 years old. A 15 year old foam sandwich boat would have to be extraordinarily badly treatedto be as tired as our boats were...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 9:02am
Chris,

I don't think hankering after a carbon mast has much to do with going faster. Carbon masts are a widely accepted technology (even for lasers in part...) with practicality, longevity (going by Julian B's blog posts on the subject) and long term cost advantages.

A simple circular carbon section is probably a lot cheaper than the present mast (that seems to be made of depleted uranium). As a paid up member of the worldwide brotherhood of midgets anything that makes stepping and unstepping a mast less dicey is good in my book...

Strange that the class did approve upgrades to the shroud tracks. New Ronstan ones would set me back 800quid - about twice what I paid for the boat. Given that shroud tracks add almost nothing to the practicality and very little to the enjoyment of sailing the boat it would seem more sensible to do away with them and just have a conventionally stayed carbon stick.

I think the class's decision had more to do with a desire to maintain quirkiness that forms part of the boat's identity and the workings of status quo bias. 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 9:20am
iGRF,
Heres a newish design (circa 2000) 'Spectrum' similar to what we talked about doing with a Fireball, rigging didn't move centreboard moved, it could also be rowed.
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&title=mystery-boat-class-please-help


Edited by 423zero - 21 Sep 18 at 9:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 18 at 9:52am
Cheers Jim 👍
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