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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Olympic events.
    Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 8:29pm
I fully accept the athletic challenge of short handed ocean racing, but I would put reasonable odds on there being insufficient wind on the day to sustain this, particularly as media demands may provide constraints on the timing of the event; I would have greater support for mixed keelboat short course racing, where high intensity action could be guaranteed at each turning mark.

With regard to the dinghy classes, there is plenty of precedent of mixed teams being successful in Fireballs, 470s, 505s, 14’s and there are presently several top Merlin Rocket teams either as mixed combos or all girl combos, so the mixed two person dinghy, which I guess will be the 470 (Paris games and all) is probably a change for the good and addresses your point.

Perhaps the mixed philosophy could have been extended to the two person skiff classes, which would have left room to select singlehanded classes that encompassed all sexes and weight possibilities.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by sargesail

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

Swedish and 5cm taller and you’re 9% less likely to attempt suicide versus a 32 to 50% chance that you will attempt suicide if you’re transgender across many countries.

Not really on the same scale is it? Which is why I conflation of shortness with transgender a pretty poor show.

Well said, Sarge, Jack and others. Those of us who are short simply do not suffer the same sort of abuse, catcalls, discrimination and danger that many trans people suffer, so the two aren't the same. 

If shorter people don't like being discriminated against then surely the obvious choice is to attack discrimination, rather than just throw around their own form of discrimination. 


Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Nov 18 at 8:12pm
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Part of the issue is that WS, IOC and the national qualifying events for the Olympics and Worlds are the only area where sectarianism between genders occurs in our sport.  Everywhere else can someone turn up regardless of their race, creed or identity and participate ... all you have to do is have a boat and turn up.

I accept that many clubs might be steeped with people with prejudices, but generally a lot of grants have pushed clubs into having much more open criteria. 

To pick a buzzword of the moment, we are the Dinghy Racing Tribe, and frankly my discrimination is not between the members of the tribe, in by book you either sail or don’t sail.

So perhaps the problem with the WS allocation of the 10 classes or should I say events, is that they are divided by gender, whereas at grass roots level there is no such division.

And before anyone says; but the new offshore keelboat is a “mixed” class, my objection is not about the “mixed”, it is that it is unlikely to provide the athletic challenge that I expect to see of an Olympian, something that the Finn had in spades.

To my eye, it would have been better to have 10 mixed classes, carefully chosen to fit different weight bands, if one is mixed but predominant men and another mixed but predominantly women, for instance something that might happen with the Europe, then that would be very healthy, and would send out a very positive message as being one of the few sports where men and women can compete together.

From my limited experience the physical challenge of doublehanded racing will probably as great, albeit different, to sailing a hiking singlehander;




As far as going to "10 mixed classes", how will it be any different to the old days when we had mixed classes and very few female sailors. The 470 favours lightweights, the Tornado seems to do OK with them as well, the Dragon and Soling would have had spots for female helms - and yet we have very, very, very few women in the Games.

The simple fact is that women don't produce the same sort of power or VO2Max for their weight, therefore all else being equal they are weaker. The difference in highly trained athletes can be 10% or more. It is extremely hard to see how anyone could give away 10-12%+ power and still be competitive at the Games. If it is an "athletic challenge" simple power is a major factor and women are disadvantaged - simple as that.


Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Nov 18 at 8:30pm
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By The Lee View Drop Down
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Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote By The Lee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 7:36pm
No wonder youth sailing is in decline, young people have too much sense than to hang around with grumpy bigots 
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 6:22pm
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by sargesail


Not really on the same scale is it? Which is why I conflation of shortness with transgender a pretty poor show.


So who are you? The judge and jury now?

The point is, thousands of people are discriminated against for myriad reasons, yet they don't get all me me me me, over here, flag waving, nor 'offended' by jocular behaviour which is clearly not intended to be offensive.

We can have an entire discussion about sexuality and wether it is or isn't a lifestyle choice to alter, change or even abstain from, but the questiont remains. Should a friendly jokey discussion get turned into something else by pseudo offense, that could be described as attention seeking minorities deliberately setting out to make what they feel to be a majority, feel bad?
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 4:11pm
Just move to Thailand.... perfect for short people and plenty of stereotype around transgender.

They even have good sailing, weren’t the OKs there not so long ago?
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 4:06pm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

Swedish and 5cm taller and you’re 9% less likely to attempt suicide versus a 32 to 50% chance that you will attempt suicide if you’re transgender across many countries.

Not really on the same scale is it? Which is why I conflation of shortness with transgender a pretty poor show.

Edited by sargesail - 07 Nov 18 at 4:08pm
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 3:48pm
[
QUOTE=KazRob]
Originally posted by iGRF

I'm short, I hate being short, been short all my life, nobody cares about my feelings when the dwarf jokes cut in, what is it with Trans folk or Gays for that matter, that they think they can be some special case and nobody should take the piss? And don't start with discrimination, I could give you chapter and verse about short people being discriminated against. Trans could be even described as a lifestyle choice, Short isn't. Nor is Ginger but that's another thread, then there are folk from up North and Jocks and Taffy... FFS

What happened to this country and everyone deciding to be offended at the drop of a hat rather than 'get' a joke?


I'm not sure how to reply to that tbh and only hope it was some sort of twisted, ironic joke.
Lets just say I don't think a huge number of short folk, gingers or others try to kill themselves because of those characteristics.....Please think carefully before you spout such verbal sewage and drive someone over the edge.[/QUOTE]






Edited by Jack Sparrow - 07 Nov 18 at 4:00pm
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 18 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Old Timer


Originally posted by iGRF

Terms like 'bigot' and 'verbal sewage' will do that.

Quite; many of us struggle with things over which we have no choice and others take the piss out off ... and that situation has been dark for many of those folk ... no one group has a monopoly on these things.
It seems certain groups are actively trying to clamp down on free speech and that does them no favours at all ... 
I posted the video of Rowan Atkinson talking about free speech and I urge you all to watch it and think about what he is saying ...


Watched it again. I agree with what he has to say which is that ‘insult’ is not a matter for the law. And that there is too much sensitivity to ‘insult’ in society.

But that’s not what happened here. There were no insults. There were some posts on the threshold of ‘offensiveness’ which were called out by someone who understands the issue. And then the original potentially offensive comment was amplified. I find that offensive in how it breaches social convention, forum or not. To put it another way if the term ‘offensive’ gives people problems how about, ‘unforgivably rude,’. And specific comments such as the suggestion that transgender is a lifestyle choice seem to me to be offensive in themselves. Not the messenger but the message.
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