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Fastest dinghy?

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fastest dinghy?
    Posted: 18 Oct 04 at 12:47am
Hey Simon, while there's little doubt the cats fly around a course, don't be so sure they're much faster downwind than a big skiff.

It's hard to say without seeing a T up against a big skiff, which I haven't done for a while, but compared to a board they both seem similar in pace. A cat sailor I know (a top skipper in Taipan 4.9s, arguably the fastest 16' cat around, and about 5th in the F 18 worlds as crew) reckons a Cherub can beat a Taipan downwind in a breeze.

A couple of times when I've been cat racing I've taken the board out before or during races. It's much easier to stay with the cats than it is to stay with the 16' skiffs down the bay. Of course, the speed of a board v a boat varies enormously depending whether we're powered up or not. In about 10 knots, the 16' skiffs seem similar upwind to the IMCO board, but the IMCO board is slower upwind than a Nacra 14 sq (baby Inter 17) sailed by a world A Class champs runner-up. Downwind, the board is slightly quicker than the Nacra, way slower than the 16' skiff. And the 16 is only about as fast as a 14' skiff.

In a good hard breeze, even my old slalom board can blow away a good A Class downwind (and when I say "good", I'm talking about an A fleet that attracts guys like 3 time world A champ and current F18 world champ) yet in the downwind race on the bay, FW boards are similar in pace to an 18' skiff. The FW boards would blow my slalom board off the water on a square run.
 
Many years ago, the Tornadoes (some with kites) raced the 18s and a C Class cat. The first T was just 17 seconds ahead of the first 18. Sure, the Ts have improved since then, but so did the 18s. In fact the top 18's chaseboat (IIRC) measured the 18's speed down the squares as faster than the C C lass (Victoria 150, the world's best at the time).

OTOH, I do know T sailors who reckon they kill 18s. Then again, those same T sailors reckon their yardstick with the new rig should only be 3 points faster than the "classic" rig; so either they're exxagerating the speed improvement or they're talking B.S. to the yardstick guys.

I'm not saying the cats don't fly upwind, but have you lined up against a good 49er or 18 downwind? You may be surprised.

And of course, when it gets to real smallboat speed nothing comes close to a board (apart from YPE which is strictly a flat-water one way machine, which is only fractionally quicker than a board that can sail both ways and in rough water).
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Scooby_simon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 04 at 9:21pm

If you think those skif's are fast, take a look at this :

http://www.wallen.se/files/wallen2.mpg

(about 2 minutse long so Broadband only)

I've also been looking for about 20 seconds of another SWE boat with the kite up that come very close to a chase boat and then just zooms away...Now that IS quick

 

 

Wanna learn to Ski - PM me..
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 04 at 6:43pm
watching that all i could think of was blur's song 2
FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
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Brian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Brian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 04 at 5:48pm
Check these vids out:

that is fast!

New Zealand 12ft skiffs. The speed of them is just sickening
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 04 at 2:52pm
Anyone up for making the 'ultimate' planing cat? Strap a couple of 49er hulls together, rig off that new Jo Richards 30 footer, hey presto!!  overpowered in 5 knots, just like the stuff on lake geneva. 
FLAT IS FAST!
Shifts Happen
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Granite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 04 at 1:48pm

Most of the  Cats I have sailed generaly feel bit less lively than skiff type boats thanks to the phenominal weight of most Cats. put that together with the good directional stability giving slow direction changes and while they may go faster than dinghys they feel slower.

But the same goes for Skiffs a Cherub feels livelier than a I14 which feels livelier than a 18 footer.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 04 at 1:46pm
I find the inertia of a aluminium mast significant compared with carbon, and I'm talking of masts of only 7.5m, but the weight of the mast is significant and limits the rapidity with which I can round up onto a beat from a fast reach.  However it also works in my favour when bearing away in a sudden gust since by driving the hull under the mast it counters the heeling force of the gust.  Does that make sense I could explain in more depth but it would take time?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Doctor Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 04 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Chris 249


AND on a big skiff you're a long
way further from centreline (14 to 18 foot wingtip
span) so the
centrifigual force on those sudden bearaways and
luffs is much more
severe.


i don't think this is strictly true. a big skiff may be 18
foot wide, but you are nine feet from turning point. On
a Tornado you are ten feet away, and on most cats 8
feet.
they are livelier due to the short waterline length
when hammering along (usually foil to foil with bow
out) whereas a cat has the whole hull length in the
water making it less responsive
regards
Dr. Clifford

take two tablets twice daily
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sailor girl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 04 at 2:56pm
hahaha!!! be nice!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 04 at 10:34pm

Originally posted by Barty

Twin wiring at altitude!!!!.............I think I'd be wearing more than just a helmet.  If your on the wire six feet out the water and wipe out its gonna hurt  and at the speed that you could be going at, its gonna hurt even more!!!

what those moths are nothing compared to a tornado sport u get alot higher than 6 foot and are going alot quicker than any dinghy could ever go!!! so if you stuff it in then it is bound to hurt and how a helmet can protect u i dont know!!! wimp



Edited by hurricane
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