Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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List classes of boat for sale |
the best boat ever |
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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I don't. There would be absolutely no point in defining in an objective way like that, since there would then be nothing to say. If it's popularity, then it's the Sunfish. End of story, end of thread. |
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TonyL ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 28 Jun 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 57 |
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Tend to agree, if we define "best" as in some way related to
popularity though if we used that measure then we might be considering
Toppers, Mirrors, and the Sunfish too! It's easy to knock the foibles of the Laser and yes it does seem
dated now. However, it seemed amazing when it first hit the UK as it
was relatively inexpensive for the performance, but it was as
tough as old boots too compared to the flaky stuff like Toys, Bonitos,
and Minisails many of us were sailing. |
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I was shocked to ear how Dragons have gone , near here they travell every year fas part of their uk circuit, but there are no longer any locals racing , from what i hear they have become , rich boys toys and fully specced up can hit rediculous tens of thousands (had herd 70 K ) , when you see them with their tailor made road racing trailers pulled by bmw 4 x 4's, Full hull covers , etc etc , and learn you have one for UK and one for euro circuit it would be hard to compete at top . Though i expect this beautiful dinosaur would be extinct otherwise, and these guys are keeping a leg end going.
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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I also doubt the current crop of sportsboats will become classics. Generally, manufacturer-led classes don't last very long because it is in the manufacturer's interest to come up with something new. I mentioned those classes because we had diverted into prices.
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Why are Dragons more expensive... partly a bit more boat that is a bit more difficult to build, especially to make a plastic boat within the rules that is as stiff as a cold-moulded (now you're talking expensive!), partly because owners expect very high standards in building and service, partly due to lack of competition amongst builders (this may change)...and probably because the market accepts the price! We were talking about "best boats ever" - the 1720's, Melges etc are good boats but I am not sure that they will become classic classes - still with us in 75 years time!
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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I'd agree, but so would a modern sportsboat like a 1720, Melges 24 or 707 whose new price less than half a Dragon's. Not as pretty, that is true. In all seriousness, I don't understand why new Dragons are so hugely expensive. Why is a Dragon 50% more expensive than an Etchells from the same builder? |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Didn't say it wasn't expensive, but seeing the number of new 30ft+ cruisers around it would seem that somebody can afford them. I would contend that Dragon's get used a lot more than your average cruiser (a figure of some 10 days use per year for the average cruiser, springs to mind)
Gordon |
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Gordon
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Stefan Lloyd ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
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The new price is pretty comparable to that of a 30 foot cruiser actually. If you think this kind of sailing isn't expensive, you are either rich or crew and don't see all the bills!
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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The Laser - not one of Bruce Kirby's prettiest boats. His I14's were beautiful. Probably the leader in the single-handed mass production, outrageously expensive, specifically designed to give physiotherapists lots of work, but with a very well organised and influential class association category. .The Laser became a world class boat because it was very intelligently marketed to sailing schools, clubs and especially national sailing associations. If the design brief for the Laser was put out to competition today a far better, more comfortable and cheaper boat would probably result. Gordon |
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Gordon
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Dragons tend to race a lot so the price per day's sailing is not that extraordinary. Certainly a lot cheaper than buying a new cruiser. Also they don't deppreciate that fast. I sailed a boat last year - brand new, ready to race with main, 2 jibs, 2 spis + fully equipped road trailer,delivered to Dublin + a days tuning and training. I think the price was 90,000 euros.A lot of money But then even a lightly used Dragon will race 45 days a year, the boat will remain competitive for 10 years - that is 450 days or 200 euros per day, not allowing for re-sale value (say 30,000 euros) maintenace and sails. What does cost a lot is towing the boat all over Europe... but the Dragon still probably gives the best value for money of any of the International keelboat classes. And with a second hand boat you can still do well (except in heavy weather with a big sea) with an older boat.
Gordon What doe
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Gordon
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