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Sailjuice Global Warm up handicaps |
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Rupert 
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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 Topic: Sailjuice Global Warm up handicapsPosted: 27 Nov 11 at 6:28pm |
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I can't see anything wrong with changing some of the handicaps to match date that has been collected, but If I went there in a boat which they have no data for (Lightning, maybe?) and had to sail off my normal handicap, while the Laser, Radial, Solo and Streaker had been gifted a loads of points, I'd not be happy.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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RS400atC
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 6:34pm |
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The change is only 3%.
I will still be surprised if a Laser wins it. Just take a mate with you with a similar standard of skill and the same class of boat and enjoy the racing. |
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Paramedic
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Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 8:22pm |
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In a big fleet of slow boats the mid fleet crowd will suffer immensley from dirty wind, and poorly sailed fast boats. I can see a logic for increasing PYs for certian classes in a fleet of - say - 100+ on a lake the size of Rutland or QMSC.
However some of the changes seem a little odd. The Solo - anyone who sails at a club where there is a recent epoxy one will know that they are significantly faster than most wooden boats and all polyester FRP/GRP boats. I have a mate who sailed his dad's Boon and says it's as fast as his old Laser. The same will apply to an Epoxy Ent, but there will probably only be one of those.
Are they applying negative changes to certain classes as well? If so I think it would be slightly ridiculous give the size of some of the changes.
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Andymac
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Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 8:48pm |
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If you follow Sprint Bobs 'Sailjuice' link you'll find this article;
For me, it totally sums up the concept of handicap racing. Just enjoy the sailing and don't get too hung up on the results. Edited by Andymac - 27 Nov 11 at 8:49pm |
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Ruscoe
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Joined: 12 Jan 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 8:54pm |
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I think its good that Grafham have decided to modify the PY's i hope this happens at the rest of the handicap opens, perhaps dropping a few of the usual suspects.
I cant wait for the Global warm up series, its fantastic to race against so many other classes and sailors.
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 9:04pm |
i don't agree with a lot of his conclusions tho' for whatever that is worth. |
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marke
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 16 Jun 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 211 |
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Posted: 27 Nov 11 at 9:16pm |
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Russ - we have also decided to adopt the Sailjuice handicaps for the Starcross Steamer even though we are not part of the Sailjuice series so that we are consistent with the rest of the other open handicap events.
Also we did an analysis of the last two years data from our club races for the popular classes at Starcross (>3000 data points) using the standard YR2 analysis. Being an "open water" club and mostly sailing at high tide, its perhaps not surprising that we found a lot of similar deviations as found in the Sailjuice analysis. The Laser results, in particular, were very close and we have a number of laser sailors that perform well at open meeting level. I think we should be applauding the folks at the Sailjuice clubs for spending the time to do the analysis and getting together to make consistent changes. Mark Edited by marke - 27 Nov 11 at 9:19pm |
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andymck
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 12:43am |
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We have had very similar numbers to these at my club for the last year. There was an immediate issue. Last year we had three solutions, two of whom could get no where near the lasers on handicap. This was probably a skill issue, but the third was the then national champion, who had very competitive racing against lasers, which are on the whole, very similar in speed across most wind speeds. The club introduced the handicap changes, which were based on the "big" events, and not on the club racing at all. This meant that the classes who were not at those events, but were reasonably handicapped were hammered. This led to the immediate disappearance of two of the Solutions, one of who'm may have even resigned from the club, I have not seen him since, and he was a regular weekend racer.
You may say it was the fault of these smaller classes for not attending the big events, but we are not all winter sailors, and not everyone has the time to travel to events at other clubs. Good news is that on handicap, the lasers are now appearing more at the front of the fleet, but overall it has not helped with weekend sailing numbers. Mostly the lasers are class sailing anyway. Has quality come to the front? not sure, as they, and a significant number of squad sailors were blown away by a firefly sailor at the club open. Andy
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Andy Mck
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andymck
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 12:50am |
Challenger Handicap was up 10 on official number at our club which had been using the numbers from last year. Makes them very hard to beat on a triangular course in a blow, if its a White one. I had assumed it would have come down, but there must have been a few light wind races in the calculations Andy
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Andy Mck
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G.R.F.
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Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 9:57am |
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This is obviously a problem purely on inland water, on the sea, the laser handicap was fine at 1078, it's a bloody Bandit now. They just have to show up to place in the top three.
I guess the low hull volume in fresh water, coupled to the dirty air from badly sailed fast boats is the issue, but then that's hardly relevant to club sailing at coastal clubs is it? It strikes me that heaven and earth gets moved to keep this horrendous boat competitive simply because there are lots of them about and it might appear to be an easy route to generate numbers. So it's +1 on the 'it's a ridiculous number' opinion
Edited by G.R.F. - 28 Nov 11 at 9:59am |
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I was thinking of using one for Grafham, especially if it's blowing! I am hoping to take Jaws the Megabyte to the other events with the PY they use at Shoreham - 1074 (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) - which I'm hoping will be accepted. I don't care if it's not competitive, girls just wanna have fun and all that...Having not sailed or raced in two years I'll just be glad to be on the water 
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