Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Tactical 'Pop' Quiz |
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Adam MR 1137 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 114 |
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As a river and pond sailor mainly, I struggle as soon as I have a decent amount of tide to try and figure out. So this disscussion was a little lost on me. I was reading in the hope that it would suddenly all make sense. Although not quite as epihany like as I need, the above post did help me understand why GRF was choosing the course he was due to the tidal effects. So thanks a lot for explaining, it has helped me understand a little bit why every one else is so far ahead at the windward mark when I race on the sea! |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Er when are we going for that race again? Not sure if I should write this, dont want to go giving a river man clues ![]() The bit I took issue with was approaching the windward mark with effectively the tide on your weather bow, by coming in from the left late. Yes I'd go left, but it would be middle and left with as much time spent on starboard as 'tempting' knocks would allow. but my final run would be on starboard having understood enough for the tide to lift me the last bit. Not banging in from the left with the risk of whisking by, tacking and overstanding even further, if I wasn't ahead further putting myself at the risk of early rounders being carried down on top of me or at the very least adding wind shadow to the already eroded windspeed the tide was dealing.. Clear enough now? |
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Mark Jardine ![]() Admin Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Mar 04 Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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I remember an argument on Scuttlebutt a few years ago about the lee-bow effect. There were some 'scientist' types on their claiming it didn't exist - wow did that turn into an argument and a half!
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Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
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I'm confused. The article recommends sailing up the left side of the beat (which among other things means avoiding the stbd layline). GRF says he'd start on starboard tack (i.re. going left) - isn't that the same thing in principle -you're both avoiding going right, which with a necessarily flexible strategy in shifting winds is the most you can set in stone, isn't it? Mountains, molehills? |
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simsy ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 14 Jun 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 158 |
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Nice story. I don't suppose you'll name the coach? I can understand if you don't.
![]() I think the original statement is very generalised, and yes, the wording is very poor. However to 'claim' one particular way to go is the right way, is very misleading without taking a lot of other factors into account - which they clearly haven't. |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Had an argument once about tidal lee bow, with an Olympic coach, he
didn't get it either and very rudely and abrubtly halted the lecture I'd been giving his squad on the subject of tidal courses, startlines and the various strategies best taken to deal with them. Many year later I had the good fortune to spot him 'coaching' the then Olympic squad as to the best strategy to approach a particular course and incoming tidal scenario over a long distance race. His opinion as to the correct approach to the tide and a wind bend over the cliffs and how and when to deal with it clearly sketched on a white board for all to see. My view was exactly opposite to his advice. I wasn't actually going to enter as I'd only been there to watch, but it was to tempting to resist, so I did, went for the 'other' cliffs and sailed the four mile beat with the incoming tide full on my lee bow. When I got to the windward mark, he and the rest of the Olympic Gravy Trainers were there in the support boat, their 'squad' yet to arrive, barely visible as they, followed by the rest of the fleet, were sailing up tide on the wrong side of the beat about ten minutes behind tide now squarely on their weather bows. Leaving them to face the most delectable rant from a 48 yr old retiree on the merits of volunteers driving all the way to Weymouth at their own expense to offer tidal lectures to young Olympic aspirants and how best they should be given the chance to listen next time and how much longer did they think it would be until they caught up. Funnily enough I've not been invited back. ![]() So yes, tidal lee bow is often of more overiding import than some windshifts particularly in sub planing circumstances given the increased boat/board speed and better VMG achieved when it's favorable. Edited by G.R.F. |
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alstorer ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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Someone will be along in a moment to claim it doesn't exist. |
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Al |
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Inland sea ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 19 Jul 07 Location: Rugby Online Status: Offline Posts: 290 |
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Good stuff their thanks ... but the lee bow bit is a Braithwate for me (whooosh over me heed
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NeilP ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
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Oh God, what am I going to do now???? Admittedly it's not the most complex strategy problem, but GRF's right on the money. I have to agree with him again! As a result I can never hold my head up in decent company again, and will have to do the decent thing... (Footsteps off, muffled gunshot) |
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No FD? No Comment!
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Well all the strategy I would have planned for a beat in circumstances
described would be an early lee bow off the line (fundamental imv) on Starboard from the Port end, then if lucky enough to meet a significant knock bang over early for the requisite time making sure not to go too down tide and certainly nowhere near the starboard wind based layline, then another final leebow up to the mark coming from shallow right. Under no circumstance would I be on either wing if it was shifting around. Edited by G.R.F. |
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