Laser 2000 Vs RS 400

ive known people to sail 400s as beginners and they have picked it up fine. thought id stick some points in from roger gilbert and a few of my own.

A few thoughts below from roger gilbert

Boats don't seem to get heavier... even the new ones leak a bit so don't
worry about this too much... if its dry when you see it it's probably OK. No
correctors ever, weights vary quite a bit but no one worries about it and
hence it doesn't really matter...:-)

The foils were changed in around 2001 - definitely worth a new c/board if
you can get one and new rudders are also much nicer though I never bothered
to change mine. The new ones have near razor sharp edges and a near perfect
gloss finish and are much stronger.... the old ones had around a 3mm
trailing edge and a matt finish and ripples and bumps etc. They are
allegedly the same shape but I'm convinced the new ones point better. It's v
important to pack the foils into the case... normally there is about 2mm of
slop on a new boat!

Mainsails last forever and don't really slow down at all in my opinion... I
still use my 6 year old one! They shrink quite a bit especially in the bolt
rope but this actually isn't much of a problem, just swing on the cunningham
a few times! The problems tend to centre around not protecting the battens
where they touch the spreader / shrouds.

The actual finish of the kite makes a big difference to how easy it is to
fly and gybe... once the silicon breaks down it tends to stick to the jib -
that said I notice very little speed difference between a brand new kite and
a really old one in a straight line - there is an enormous amount to be
gained from sailing the waves, changing angles, weight position etc. This is
easily worth around 200m a nationals run in marginal planing conditions over
even a well sailed boat... a new kite will only make a couple of lengths
difference if you're lucky so I wouldn't worry about it too much to start...
that said a new one is expensive. Once again the kite cloth was changed
about 2 years ago... the new one is slippier but in my opinion definitely
doesn't last as long! If you have problems flying the kite, before blaming
it completely check the luff rope inside the kite... these can get untied /
broken and the kite becomes completely unstable and impossible to fly...
they're actually quite sensitive to the tension in this.

Jibs tend to suffer most, however they are made of a pretty heavy 5oz cloth
so last reasonably well... look for wear at batten ends and check they
aren't broken (it's generally not a good idea to wrap the sail around the
forestay but many people do!). If they're broken its a nightmare to repair.
Realistically a new jib should easily last a couple of seasons of events...
probably slightly less if you use it every weekend... despite all the
grumblings they actually last pretty well in my opinion.

Check the joins running down the sections of the foredeck... cracks here
normally suggest something is moving - they're quite common and I don't know
of many problems... so I suppose no cracks is definitely a good sign!.

There have been several revisions to the masts (honest!), hard to tell the
difference unless you lay them side by side but things to look for are
spreader ends permenantly fixed to shrouds... older masts had the blue
detachable ends (which can fail and the mast will break )and a solid
aluminium mast foot. Middle aged masts ( a slightly different section to old
masts - one design... !) generally have the spreaders fixed to the shrouds
and a mast foot (aluminium) with a central gap in it. New masts have the
overhanging pulley option at the top. Don't think there is much between any
of them tho', bend control is easily achieved using the RAM / spreaders.

Toestraps can wear on underside of thwart so check the wear and either
replace them or don't sit out if they're worn!

Mainhalyards are always breaking... check if it is kevlar (standard fit), if
so replace it straight away and save yourself some hassle - I'd strongly
recommend 2:1 4mm spectra.

Most 400 masts will lean / bend slightly when setup with the same pin
settings, 9/10 boats I've looked at require the LHS pin to be 1/2 a hole
lower, so check bend when in its on the floor as well as in the boat.

Booms corrode and break at the main sheet blocks eventually.. worth a check.


Any slop in the rudder is a nightmare and if you get an older boat replacing
all the pintles and gudgeons is well worth the cost. Also the tiller is
rivetted into the rudder stock so if there is any play renew the rivets or
replace with bolts.

Poles seem to be either bent through collision or indestructable in less
than 40knts!

Another to check for is the condition of the hull where it sits on the
trolley... some people put carpet on their trolleys and this holds moisture
agains the hull which is a bad idea! Speaking of trolleys if you can get
hold of a gunwhale hung one (they don't make them any more) they were much
better, though harder to launch with... the new fibreglass cradle ones are
pretty poorly designed and as soon as the boat rocks on the trolley in any
wind the edges of the cradle snap and the whole thing becomes very unstable
on the beach!

Happpy sailing...



Just some of my own thoughts:

the moulds were changed in 2001 which i think is about 1100+ numberwise. not a
great deal of difference, apart from the foils.

the early 1200s were pretty shoddy built. But fast. like mine, 1210, its a fast
boat but not very well made. paul bowen had 1225 and he sent it back a few times
because of the quality. but they are oldish boats now (5 years old) and if
anything is likely to go wrong it will have by now. so dont be too put off.

An older boat is fine, they still seem to be stiff and as long as it isnt to
beaten about will probably be fine. 2nd at this years nats was number 9?? and
4th was 645. the hulls are very much the same whatever age as long as they have
no repairs dents scratches etc. you do often find that they are very basic and
often require a bit of money spent on them to get them up to a easy racing
standard. i.e. the rope is pretty shoddy and blocks are crap.

The boats run very high rig tensions, 400-500lbs and some guys will increase to
600 although i dont like punishing my boat like that. at these loads, most boats
will have cracks in places, mainly on the gunwhale (it looks like someone has
wound the ratchet straps on too tight when trailing) they are only in the gel,
but does suggest a lack of stiffness in the hull. But....if a boat doesnt have
cracks there, it may be because it hasnt been run at these loads as the tuning
guides only say 350lbs (no idea why). also you sometimes see cracks in the deck,
on the joint of the cb case and deck, generrally from a fat helm.

Definately check for corrosion on the mast and the boom, look for cracks where
the mainsheet blocks are (the guy that drilled two holes on the tension side of
a member that has high loads applied wants sacking)

Roger mentions looking for cracks in the foredeck/deck joint and that suggests
somethings moved. well on reason this moves is the post holding the deck up (in
fron tof the mast) sometimes gets hit hard by the spinnaker pole and bends and
thus moves the foredeck and cracks the joint. this isnt a big problem at all.

Measured on the shrouds.

forestay i believe is about 1.7 (ish) of that of the shrouds. but no one uses it.

ive only run it at 500lbs once and will only normally run at 400lbs, mainly because i sail on the sea and its more forgiving with a slacker rig in the waves, but there is a considerable increase in power/height with increased tension

And as for sailing the boats before you buy, always a good idea, but not something I practise!

I bought our first (of 3) RS400 in 2002 without ever having sailed one before: based on the fact there was a good fleet at my local club, and the people who saild them seemed to be of a similar standard.

I bought our Laser 2000 this time last year without ever having sailed one before: based on the speed of the boats in handicap races at Bloody Mary and Battle of the Classes that year, the friendliness of the fleet to new owners on their discussion group, the size of the fleets at Open Meetings, and the numbers in the dinghy park at our local club.