Important announcement from the Tornados

Thanks Stuart, a good answer to my apprehensions of the move. 

I do wonder if ISAF are being somewhat unfair by saying the Tornado is too expensive when the likes of the star and Yngling are in there.  Not what you might want to hear but could it be possible that they've made their minds up for good and they're just going to throw excuse after excuse at the cat world?  A bit of a far fetched conspiracy theory but as I've just mentioned, the star and yngling class aren't exactly cheap boats. 

 

Doug

Chris, I just wanted to put the point across that No matter what the development, I'm struggling to think of a single example (in dinghy sailing) whereby someone won through putting in LESS time and have less experience but had far better developed equipment.  I don't for a second think that development doesn't make a difference, because it does but as far as I know, the best sailor always wins. 

If cutting the cost to the sailors and restricting the arms race development cost is the issue, then there's a far simpler option.  Put in price caps.  E.g. Sails cannot cost more than £xxxx, The mast cannot cost more than £xxxx. 
Surely that would be more effective than restricting the class to one hull builder, sail maker and so on.  I realise this would be an extreme possibility but if more classes were to smod themselves, the potential is to end up with not much of an industy left at all. 
I realise it's not an olympic or even a true international class but the GP14 has sail price caps in place and it works.  The sailors are happy and the sailmakers are happy. 

Doug

If the sailmakers and sailors were of equal skill, then it would be a close
fight...... unless one sailor spent more money developing more sails,
which (according to every sailmaker I know) results in a faster boat.

Developing sails, hulls, spars, is all fascinating stuff and arguably a great
test of the sailor (although I don't understand why being able to develop
the sails within a tight ruleset is seen as so important by some who
people ignore hull development or wider rulesets) but surely you can't
say that all the time, effort and cash that goes into making one sail faster
than the other does NOT affect results.

Certainly all the sailmakers keep telling us that it does!

Originally posted by Doug.H Originally posted by Stuart O However by one designing the white sails (spinnakers are mainly Gran Segals) would mean that the ability is down to the sailor and not because they have developed a radical sail. Sorry but thats simply not true. Everyone having the same sails doesn't make things more equal (believe it or not). I keep hearing this said time and time again but when has the best sailor not won?? Whoever puts in the most time and has the most experience pulls into the lead. Examples: Everyone has the same sails in the RS200 class and roger gilbert won. In the merlin rocket class there are lots of sailmakers competing, roger gilbert won. Nick craig won the RS400 where everyone has the same sails and also wins in the OK's and B14 class where there are competing sailmakers. Ben ainslie won in the laser class where everyone has the same sails, and wins in everything else he sails where there are many sailmakers competing. Shall I continue? Making sails single manufacturer does one thing. It damages the health of racing lofts across the world who rely on the business of international classes. Doug

Counter example- one SMOD regatta I know well was decided by a
distance of 18 inches in one heat. Another was decided by 3 lengths in 4
days racing. In one class, the two sailors weighed within 2kg of each
other; the other was weight-equalised.

Surely all the might and science of the modern sailmaking industry could
have made more than 18" difference in a 45 minute race? Surely a
sailmaker, working with a multi-millionaire four-time world champ ex-
Olympian (the runner up in the second champs) could have made a sail
that was fast enough to close such a narrow gap (other races were
probably closer)?

If the skill of the sailmaker cannot make a significant difference, then
shouldn't we just sack them all?

Surely, given time and money and sailor input, they can make a sail that
has a significant speed advantage over other older sails.

If not, then why bother with developing sails? If developing sails makes a
difference in results and speed, then spending cash on developing sails
can make a difference in results. If developing sails does not make a
significant difference in results and speed, then why bother?

I just changed from SMOD gear inside a development class to non-SMOD
gear inside the development class. Sure, the non-SMOD stuff suits my
weight better, but also someone else's input (the sailmaker and hull
designer) has now affected my results.....

Yes, the non-SMOD stuff is faster, arguably "better" in many ways, yes
selecting it can take some skill (although not always, it's not that hard to
ask what is fast and then walk out and buy it) but it is hardly a level
playing field.

In our 'loose OD' cat, sail shapes have changed. We went from being top
1/3 of our first nats, to the back in our second. We were using the same
sails, which had been hardly used (and should have been durable enough
to last given their age and the care with which they were used).

So did I sail a really stupid series (highly likely) or were the new gen sails
faster (as many said)? How do we find out? By spending a couple of
thousand quid on sails to replace our little-used, sound, tough but
outmoded sails so we can gain that vital minute or two per race. Oh, and
now there's another generation of sails and people are spending money
on more new sails and more recuts.

That's great in some ways, but a complete pain in others.

Making sails single manufacturer does one thing - it means that we can
go out and know we have the same gear as others. In the SMODs I sail the
few, if any, of the fastest sailors round here (including former Olympians
and world champs etc) have special selected gear and do NOT change it
every regatta as some claim.








Edited by Chris 249

Originally posted by Guest#260 I dunno why cat sailors get into this them & us stuff ...

and lets not even mention sailboards...........