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Strategy in tide??

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 5:12pm
That's a contradiction in terms RYA & Tactics

Well it is in our world (windsurfing) as tactically clueless a bunch as ever
failed to spot a wind bending into a tidal lee bow as ever sailed..

I must give it a read, if only for a chortle, you never know, it always pays to
take the time, just in case someone brings something new to the table.

Edited by G.R.F.
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:05pm

tidal lee bow? i assume this isn't the same as having the tide on your lee bow (i understand that). Is a tidal lee bow something to do with the tide giving you a header or something?

And how does the tide bend the wind???????

I'm happy to admit i'm totally clueless as to any of what GRF is saying. I think i understand Rushall's book though. And i've been sailing in tides for years.



Edited by mike ellis
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:11pm

Originally posted by Phil eltringham

This assumes all other things are equal!:  If the tide is at 90 degrees to the wind i'd say start at the right hand end of the line every time.  If its going right to left, starting at the right hand end means you can tack off earlier and get the lee bow up the first half of the beat and hopefully cross the fleet later on.  If its going left to right, need to be carful you don't get pushed onto the committee boat, but you'll start with lee bow on startboard (along with everyone else), but at right hand end, have a better chance of clear air.  I'm probably wrong about this so comments please...

Not wrong at all. Nice to see someone who doesn't immediately snort coffee all over their keyboards at the mention of the words "lee" and "bow"!

I guess your description depends on how many other boats are racing and therefore how hard it would be to tack off. It's probably easier to reduce this to a scenario where you're the only boat and can tack at will, just for the sake of simplifying things.

So if the scenario is: no other boats, line dead square to true wind, windward mark plumb straight towards true wind, tide right to left and constant up the course, then in most wind strengths I'd start on port at the down-tide (left) end of the line. This way, I'd get to do the biggest amount of the lee-bow tack possible, which is always, always, always the golden rule when sailing in tide. If the tidal strength isn't constant up the course, say it's stronger nearer the w/ward mark, then the thing to do would be to go middle-left and set up so you approach the mark on starboard, doing your lee-bow tack in the strongest tide.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:13pm

Originally posted by mike ellis

I'm happy to admit i'm totally clueless as to any of what GRF is saying.

Join the club ...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:14pm
Also, in the above scenario with constant tide, it's important to remember that port will be the longer tack, so you'd better have a damn good reason not to do it first.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:35pm

As you can see, by starting downtide, boat A sails less distance to the top mark than boat B, who starts uptide. The differences in course are marked in blue. This would apply in most wind strengths. In very light air however, I'd start at the uptide end, so if it turns into a crapshoot, there's something in the bank.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:45pm

Where is the wind on your diagram? and I mean the true wind not the sailing wind.

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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:49pm
it looks like it's straight down the page to me.
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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Roy Race View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 6:57pm

Oops! True wind straight down the screen, due north if you like. "Sailing" or "Tidal" wind gets knocked left by the tide, hence the lift on port.

I agree that a top-rate race officer would compensate by dropping the pin-end to leeward and moving the w/ward mark to the left. If that was the case, then the blue lines would be back to equal length, as they would be if there was no tide.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 08 at 7:08pm
I think that I am in agreement with Rich Perkins, and am complete
dissagreement with the "lee bow effect" man - but I will have to remind
myself about this next time and not start at the uptide end of the line.

PS and if you want my views on what is written in books - well how many
books go on about the "leebow effect" and starting uptide, well they are
probably not worth the paper they are printed on!!
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