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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Different way of seeing
    Posted: 06 Mar 22 at 6:33pm
All good replies, thats what I was trying to say, but not so well.
Robert
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Wiclif View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wiclif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 22 at 6:49pm
Here is another thought for you, 2 different ways of describing the same thing

Responsive is the word you use of a higher performance boat when you are in control
Twitchy is the word you use for the same boat in the same conditions when you are finding it a handful
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 8:08am
The other missing from the statement is:

The amount of pain the boat causes..
Sitting scrunched up by the mast in a laser in light winds was more painful to me than leaning out, and I've got a damaged  back..
Hence single hander non displacement boats are not possible for me. 

The amount of skill between a displacement boat and a dinghy is the same just different.

 I've spent 20 years sailing a Yeoman, (1/2 ton cast iron keel) we can have days when you lean out just the same as in a dinghy, the difference is, if you have a knock down, you right without going in, but you are up to your shins in water and in an hours race, you may as well go home..

Twitchy? try a Yeoman when you finally get it to plane, in a 100 ft wide river, one tiny mistake and you are going to make a big hole in the river bank..






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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 8:10am
For some, and I include myself in this group, the exhilaration comes from the edge of control. There’s nothing quite like a full on three sail reach in the venerable Fireball, when it feels as if only the last few feet of bilge panel is in the water (it’s not, of course), and there’s spray everywhere. Conversely, I was sailing with a competent and experienced crew in breezy but benign conditions. Three sail reach again, entirely under control and word comes from the front “I don’t like this”. 
Horses for courses…
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Post Options Post Options   Quote skslr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 8:57am
I would like to disagree:

To me an RS800 is very responsive, on windy days the response might be "Your are not up to it". But I never thought it is "twitchy".

On the the other hand I thought an Albacore to be "twitchy" due to the way the hull rolls/heels but it is hardly "high performance"...

Someone once said the most important factor in dinghy design would be how far your butt is "outside" the waterline (i.e. Canoe = very far, RS Aero = not so far). 

I believe there is some truth in this as it has a high impact on capsizing to windward or not when sailing into a lull or a big header  Smile
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 10:01am
Yeoman, one for Griff, only 700kgs.
Robert
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 10:25am
Isn't the problem with the marketing, not the boat? No reason for there to be high speed, very hard to sail boats out there, but then don't advertise them as being suitable for your average club racer.
I remember when the Iso came out, lots of people traded in Ents, Fireflies and the like. In theory, they less stable than an Iso, but in reality, many Isos ended up in the long grass because of the power they generated causing many scary wipeouts, and people either went back to older designs or left the sport. And I remember people being a bit sniffy because I sailed old designs rather than a "skiff", as though that made me a lesser sailor.
But I'll defend the right of anybody to sail any boat they want to, whether they master it or simply enjoy the craic as they crash and burn yet again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Grumpycat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by 423zero

All good replies, thats what I was trying to say, but not so well.

Totally agree . This a really good thread, full of well reasoned points of view . Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Isn't the problem with the marketing, not the boat? No reason for there to be high speed, very hard to sail boats out there, but then don't advertise them as being suitable for your average club racer.
I remember when the Iso came out, lots of people traded in Ents, Fireflies and the like. In theory, they less stable than an Iso, but in reality, many Isos ended up in the long grass because of the power they generated causing many scary wipeouts, and people either went back to older designs or left the sport. And I remember people being a bit sniffy because I sailed old designs rather than a "skiff", as though that made me a lesser sailor.
But I'll defend the right of anybody to sail any boat they want to, whether they master it or simply enjoy the craic as they crash and burn yet again.

I think the Iso is perhaps a good example of a boat that's OK for static stability, but not so great in hydrodynamic stability (maybe not the correct term?) at any speed?
Also not a brilliant rig.
The kids make the 29er look much easier to sail.

But the Iso is from 30 years ago, it was affordable fast sailing in its day and a lot of people had fun with them. I think maybe some ended up in the long grass because a lot of classes had short lives in that era, people bought one and moved class after 3 to 5 years and there wasn't a queue of people wanting their secondhand boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 22 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by eric_c


I think the Iso is perhaps a good example


Absolutely and with it came a lot of ex windsurfers returning to the dinghy fold, fresh with being exposed to marketing hype and BS.

I once did one day of an Iso nationals up at Brightlingsea, crewing for a mate, the experience effectively innoculated me against ever getting involved in dinghy championships, until I again made a similar mistake at the Bar free Rs100 nationals in my early dinghy days which totally cemented the view.

As to that boat, it is a perfect example of what I said previously, but unfortunately the damage it did.. It wiped out our local scorpion fleet at Hythe and the sailing side of the club collapsed then dis appeared, it was only lucky for us some years later ructions at a nearby club in Dover saw a group joining us to reform the sailing section, then a few of us older windsurfers joined them (since we could see they had no idea how to race properly) and our club recovered a bit. We now have pretty much nothing but sensible old guard, I would call crap, stuff, but since I've had to buy one, my mouth must hush. At the end of the day the joy of the contest must exceed whatever little pleasure can be afforded by the equipment, it's not as if thrills and spills are 100% of what we're after. The sort of joy some of us look for is more cranial than adrenal.

Edited by iGRF - 07 Mar 22 at 2:12pm
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