Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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bustinben ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Oct 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 13 Sep 19 at 10:59am |
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There's an important point that mozzy made which is in danger of getting lost...
If those 4 boats all line up nose to tail from the mark to make their rounding, then green is overlapped with red when red reaches the zone. Anyone lined up bow to stern with 3 boats between them and the mark has to give room to pretty much everyone still coming down the course. Don't put yourself in that situation, and if you see it, take advantage of it! 3 boats in front of them could be a tough argument in the room. 4 is easier. 5 is a slam dunk. Edited by bustinben - 13 Sep 19 at 11:01am |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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If you try it, be prepared to tack off on the wrong side of the mark and gybe round and find another gap if the door is slammed in your face. Quicker than a 720, generally, and no infringement. Just accept it doesn't always work!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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ian.r.mcdonald ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 24 Feb 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 440 |
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And I have seen often the Superstars after a rare bad start or technical problem, when playing " catch up", will avoid the scrum, sail fast and wide whilst us " normal " sailors are calling for room and searching for gaps!
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Sam.Spoons ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 12 Location: Manchester UK Online Status: Offline Posts: 3401 |
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And on whom is the onus of proof (I know there is no onus of proof but the rules usually suggest a presumption one way or the other as in rule 18.2 e "
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Spice 346 "Flat Broke"
Blaze 671 "supersonic soap dish" |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Interesting to know that. It would also depend on how 'significant' the advantage would need to be. I would not say that staying ahead after turn could be considered significant, the other boats may have decided to have a luffing match and end up stopping.
It is a subjective thing, who can persuade the PC..... |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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44.1(b)
Barging inside a mark log jam is one of the most likely situations for that to occur. The thing to do, if you do get caught out is of course to take your penalty extremely slowly so that every boat that was ahead of you gets past again. |
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Can you expand on the Jim? I do not see that as part of case 63 anywhere.
If green (in this case) gets it wrong and infringes any of the other boats the penalty as defined is a 2 tack 2 gybe (effectively 720). The only way a retirement could be forced would be for one of the other boat to protest them under rule 2 which would be a bit harsh. Green should be on standby to either bail out to avoid infringing or be prepared to take a penalty if they do. Yes it is a risky thing to do but it pays off more often than not in my experience. The rules do state contact should be avoided where possible and you should give room and protest. Red could leave themselves open to a protest against intimidating behaviour depending on the nature of the shouting as well. |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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In case 63 why doesn't B protest A instead of C?
Boat A surely took more room than she needed to sail the course, as evidenced by another boat being able to fit through the gap. Surely that's an open and closed protest against A? I think B protested the wrong boat.
Edited by mozzy - 11 Sep 19 at 2:54pm |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Probably good to read case 63 in the case book Linked from here... Basically you can nip through at your own risk, but if you impede any boat that you owe mark room from sailing its desired proper course then you must take a penalty. And if even after taking turns you still come out ahead of where you would have been if you'd sailed round legally then you must retire. Its a very high risk manouver. Edited by JimC - 11 Sep 19 at 2:28pm |
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NickM99 ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 26 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 145 |
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Mozzy described the likely situation well. No two roundings are the same. You need to make a last minute call on whether you are going to get away with it. If all the boats in your diagram continue to round the mark overlapped with one another you would probably be all right. But if the red boat slows until he can avoid the transom of the boats to windward of him and sails to round close to the mark, you would have to keep clear of him. He may be thinking of doing that if he can and that's why he is shouty.
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