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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 7:09pm
Stopwatches on a lanyard round one's neck, I seem to remember.

The measured candle on the foredeck was less successful.
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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 6:17pm
in this situation it was the most prestigious race series of the club calendar and it so happened I wasn't going to be competitive due to 1 reason or another and decided I would seek clarification over a few points on here than cause issues within the club. As per the comment about not bringing up issues like this to prevent losing volunteers; where do you draw the line between losing volunteers because they don't wont tolerate criticism or losing competitors because the sailing is sh*t


The whole point of those 3 signals is to indicate how long is left until a start otherwise we would only have 1, even if i had have synced my watch at the 5 minute and then inside the 1 minute mark realized the P flag was still up I could still have aborted the start and assumed my watch was wrong. Had it been anything but a P flag you certainly would abandon your start than risking taking a penalty 

What did we rely on before waterproof watches?


Edited by ClubRacer - 10 Jul 17 at 6:25pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by jeffers

Personally if you missed the 2 previous signals then the 'no fault of your own' bit falls over. Were I on the PC I would be asking that question of you.

Mistakes happen, we all know what the rules say and perhaps the RO should have abandoned the sequence but in a club race was it necessary?
Yes it was.

AP is the race officers' friend, and ever RO should be able to run an AP sequence smoothly and quickly.

There's no excuse for letting a clearly improper starting sequence ride.

If only to avoid the problem with fault of boat's own.

I appreciate what you are saying there but a lot of club ROs are volunteers. if you got really anal about something like this you would find your volunteer list would shrink considerably and club racing would be in jeapordy.

The OP should have chucked in a request for redress and seen what the PC came back with. there was clearly a but of fault on both sides. The OP for missing the 2 previous signals and the RO for not abandoning the start once the flag had got stuck.

There seems to be little appetite at club level for training to be an RO with most people wanting to 'wing it' on the day. Most club level racing is fairly laid back even if the on the water action is competitive (just my experience as opposed to the letter of the law).
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 11:12am
Thank you.

Can't argue with that.
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Posts: 94 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by GML

Best practice when giving average points as redress to a boat that has finished a race is for the protest committee to say something like "Average points in accordance with A10(a) but not worse than X points" where X is the number of points you got for your actual finishing position in the race.

Would you care to cite some authoritative document?

Whilst accepting that it is not binding in all situations, I would refer the honourable gentleman to paragraph 6.3 of Section B of the World Sailing Jury Policies, February 2017 (http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/JuryPoliciesFebruary2017-[22447].pdf):

6.3 In all cases in which average points will be awarded to a boat that has a finishing position, add ‘but no worse than N’ (where N is the boat’s finishing position).
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 10:22am
Originally posted by jeffers

Personally if you missed the 2 previous signals then the 'no fault of your own' bit falls over. Were I on the PC I would be asking that question of you.

Mistakes happen, we all know what the rules say and perhaps the RO should have abandoned the sequence but in a club race was it necessary?
Yes it was.

AP is the race officers' friend, and ever RO should be able to run an AP sequence smoothly and quickly.

There's no excuse for letting a clearly improper starting sequence ride.

If only to avoid the problem with fault of boat's own.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 9:47am
Personally if you missed the 2 previous signals then the 'no fault of your own' bit falls over. Were I on the PC I would be asking that question of you.

Mistakes happen, we all know what the rules say and perhaps the RO should have abandoned the sequence but in a club race was it necessary?
Paul
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Brass View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 17 at 3:08am
Originally posted by GML

Originally posted by ClubRacer

My question is if I had won the redress would my score be removed and given a worse average score and what else is there they could offer me from the redress which would actually have benefited me (I would presume only to abandon the race but would they do that for just a single boat)

Best practice when giving average points as redress to a boat that has finished a race is for the protest committee to say something like "Average points in accordance with A10(a) but not worse than X points" where X is the number of points you got for your actual finishing position in the race.

Would you care to cite some authoritative document?
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GML View Drop Down
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Posts: 94 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GML Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 17 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by ClubRacer

My question is if I had won the redress would my score be removed and given a worse average score and what else is there they could offer me from the redress which would actually have benefited me (I would presume only to abandon the race but would they do that for just a single boat)

Best practice when giving average points as redress to a boat that has finished a race is for the protest committee to say something like "Average points in accordance with A10(a) but not worse than X points" where X is the number of points you got for your actual finishing position in the race.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 17 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by ClubRacer

Wouldn't this be clear cut in a protest hearing?

Oh it would be clear cut enough that the RC made an error. But to get redress you have to convince the PC that not only did the RC make a mistake, but also that you were disadvantaged through no fault of your own. They might well conclude that if you'd been paying attention to *all* the signals you'd have known what was going on, especially as everyone else managed to start OK.
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