Starboard Rounding Windward Mark Incident

< id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;">

It's quite possible though that even though the boat ended up to leeward clear ahead, an overlap did exist when port passed head to wind and was subsequently broken as the bore off.  < id="adlesse_unifier_magic_element_id" style="display:none;">

Edited by Quagers - 15 May 13 at 11:14pm

Originally posted by JimC OK Brass, I think I've got it: because B was *not* clear ahead when they reached the zone then 18.2a applies:  the fact that the overlap wasn't established until they were in the zone doesn't matter: its a kind of double negative situation.   Mmmm,  the fact that they were neither overlapped nor clear ahead/astern on reaching the zone means that rule 18.2( b ) does not apply.   Rule 18.2( a ) applies because rule 18 as a whole appplies (boats on same tack one in the zone) and rule 18.2( b ) and rule 18.3 do not.   Its not that A gains rights when an overlap is established,   No, once both boats are on the same tack, becoming overlapped is the very thing that does give the inside boat an entitlement to mark-room.   its a situation where for A not to have rights as inside boat they must have lost those rights by being clear behind.   Rule 18.2( b ) gives a special sort of mark-room that we might call 'permanent' mark-room that doesn't change or disappear while ever rule 18 applies, regardless of overlap, inside, outside, or right of way.   Rule 18.2 ( a ) gives what we might call 'temporary' mark-room to whichever boat is overlapped inside, which can disappear when boats become clear ahead/astern and change when a different boat becomes overlapped inside.   In this scenario, although rule 18 applied from the instant B (other boat) came onto the same tack as A, when she passed head to wind, A (OP) had no entitlement to mark-room while she was clear astern, but she became entitled to mark-room when she became overlapped inside.   I think its logic that makes more sense in the protest room and on paper than on the water...   I don't think the logic is too difficult once you grasp the idea that rule 18.2( b ) will apply in the vast majority of cases, and will give the high quality 'permanent' mark-room, but in exeptional cases where rule 18 only switches on in the zone, the inside overlapped boat gets the low quality 'temporary' mark-room.   Maybe one should say that rights are dependant not on being overlapped at the zone, but on NOT being NOT overlapped.   I think rather they depend on rule 18 applying and rule 18.2( b ) not applying (because boats were neither overlapped nor clear ahead/astern on reaching the zone).  Rupert, the definition says that if you have to tack to get round the mark you aren't fetching it. Makes sense really!   Yes.  Thank you. Quagers, unless I am much mistaken this situation of boats on opposite tacks on a beat is indeed one where the boats are neither overlapped nor clear astern and clear ahead!   Yes.

Interesting discussion and thanks for all the comments. I was a little inaccurate in my original description in stating that B tacked clear ahead and to leeward of us; what I should have said was that they completed their tack clear ahead onto a close hauled starboard tack course that was to leeward of our own. We then started to luff to keep clear and in doing so gained the overlap. The first of Quagers two diagrams is therefore correct. I take it that Rule 18.2 (a) together with the definition of Mark Room then should allow me to firstly pass to port of the mark unhindered and then to tack onto port to round it?

Is it not the whole of rule 18 that does not apply between boats on opposite tacks?