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    Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Steve411

...in a fully -battened main????


I don't think the batterns are full; the black bit on the battern pockets is extended beyond the end of the batten to make them look longer than they actually are.



I don't think any RS boats bar the 600 have fully battened mains. When you sail a boat that does, like the 600 or a 14 you know about it! Even handelling them launching can be tricky.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:31am
Originally posted by asterix

Thanks

on being positive, is it a question of tacking well through the wind (>100 degrees or so) and then once on the new tack pointing up again?

Good question. I don't know! It's probably not a bad idea in the early days til you're used to how the boat reacts, though obviously if you go through too many degrees then the boat will be heeled too much on the new tack. In the 300 it's only a problem when it's windy.

What I tend to do is do a slow but positive movement with the tiller then, as I pass under the boom onto the new tack I snap in the main momentarily which seems to help the turn, then immediately release it until I'm fully hiked on the new side before sheeting in properly again.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:30am

Originally posted by Steve411

...in a fully -battened main????

I don't think the batterns are full; the black bit on the battern pockets is extended beyond the end of the batten to make them look longer than they actually are.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:27am

Then again I've never sailed a 100! I've no idea, for example whether the 100's fully-battened rig will make a difference. If you look a the pic of the 300 above you'll note that the top batten is inverted or at least board flat (another way of telling if you have enough kicker on in a blow). But what effect will excessive kicker will have on the other battens in a fully -battened main????

Guess you'll have to ask your class chairman as the only person who's sailed both boats!



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Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:23am

Thanks

on being positive, is it a question of tacking well through the wind (>100 degrees or so) and then once on the new tack pointing up again?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:21am
I've never sailed a 300 but can fully believe that the
techniques being spoken of here will work just as well on the 100.

Each time I sailed the 100 in a blow I found that pulling
on the out haul just killed the power and made it much
harder to punch through the hailing chop so I used more and
more kicker plus some cunningham when it was howling.
Probably not as much as is being suggested here but i will
certainly be trying it myself when my boat arrives.

Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 11:04am

Originally posted by asterix

wow that is a lot of bend - do you tack with the kicker still on?

If I'm feeling agile (not very often), or panicked into making a crash tack (quite often), or I forget (very often). Usually, if the kicker is block to block I let off a bit (so that the blocks are about 3-4 inches apart) so I can get under the boom with it brushing over the top of my buoyancy aid. With this amount of kicker the leech is pretty hard so you have to be positive through the tack or else there's a risk you'll end up in irons.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 10:59am
wow that is a lot of bend - do you tack with the kicker still on?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 10:37am
Originally posted by Steve411

Originally posted by Merlinboy

Originally posted by ChrisC

Rob,

Thanks for your update.

I am pretty keen (very keen actually !) to find how best to depower the
10.2 for upwind in a bit of breeze - I was actually pretty overpowered in
not a lot of breeze !

Having not sailed a 300 I am not sure just how much kicker can be
applied - anyone got any advice on this ? I understand the principle that
initially kicker is generating power and that it then progressively reduces
power by flattening the sail and lowering the COE. Just not how much we
are talking here (dont want to break it !!).

Also I did find pulling on the outhaul helped. Initially the boom strap was
resting against the mainsheet tie-off point (i.e maximum eased) and I
was
getting hammered ! Found life easier later when I pulled it on some.
However, I note from the 300 tuning guides they dont really stress
outhaul as a depowering device.

I am looking for advice here as I have no experience at all in boats where
on the water tuning is critical. Most of my experience is in set-it-and-go
type boats.

With he 300, when you think you have loads of kicker on you are usually half way there!  In bug stuff, it would scare you 100 boys the amount we crank on, but it really transforms the boat.  I tend not to use the out-haul as an aid to de-power the boat, i use kicker and sheet control as well as pulling the board up a fair old chunk (say 30cm)  When i have run out of kicker, i pull on the cunningham, when i run out of Cunningham its basically so windy the world is probably going to end and the Phantom boys would only manage two out of the three races!

Second that. On the 300 we set up the gnav so that there is a bit of prebend in the mast when the kicker is fully off (blocks beginning to pull over the rollers). If you don't thave any prebend you will not be able to get sufficient kicker on upwind in a blow.

When Russ says use lots of kicker he means use LOTS of kicker. It's all about power management. If you're overpowered upwind pull on more kicker, if you feel underpowered let a bit off. In an unstayed rig leech tension, mast bend and therefore sail fullness are all interlinked so kicker is the primary control. From top end of force 3 upwards be prepared to pull the kicker on block to block. In a 300 this means that the top of the mast is behind your sitting out position (i.e. loads of mastbend).

The mastbend means that the top half of the sail is board flat (good) with power generated by the lower half. For this reason don't pull on much outhaul until it gets seriously windy as you'll need some grunt low down.

As an indication my avatar is in a force 2. This is the mastbend in a force 5. Note the angle of the kicker bars to the boom.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 10 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Merlinboy

Originally posted by ChrisC

Rob,

Thanks for your update.

I am pretty keen (very keen actually !) to find how best to depower the
10.2 for upwind in a bit of breeze - I was actually pretty overpowered in
not a lot of breeze !

Having not sailed a 300 I am not sure just how much kicker can be
applied - anyone got any advice on this ? I understand the principle that
initially kicker is generating power and that it then progressively reduces
power by flattening the sail and lowering the COE. Just not how much we
are talking here (dont want to break it !!).

Also I did find pulling on the outhaul helped. Initially the boom strap was
resting against the mainsheet tie-off point (i.e maximum eased) and I
was
getting hammered ! Found life easier later when I pulled it on some.
However, I note from the 300 tuning guides they dont really stress
outhaul as a depowering device.

I am looking for advice here as I have no experience at all in boats where
on the water tuning is critical. Most of my experience is in set-it-and-go
type boats.

With he 300, when you think you have loads of kicker on you are usually half way there!  In bug stuff, it would scare you 100 boys the amount we crank on, but it really transforms the boat.  I tend not to use the out-haul as an aid to de-power the boat, i use kicker and sheet control as well as pulling the board up a fair old chunk (say 30cm)  When i have run out of kicker, i pull on the cunningham, when i run out of Cunningham its basically so windy the world is probably going to end and the Phantom boys would only manage two out of the three races!

Second that. On the 300 we set up the gnav so that there is a bit of prebend in the mast when the kicker is fully off (blocks beginning to pull over the rollers). If you don't thave any preben you will not be able to get sufficient kicker on upwind in a blow.

When Russ says use lots of kicker he means use LOTS of kicker. It's all about power management. If you're overpowered upwind pull on more kicker, if you feel underpowered let a bit off. In an unstayed rig leech tension, mast bend and therefore sail fullness are all interlinked so kicker is the primary control. From top end of force 3 upwards be prepared to pull the kicker on block to block. In a 300 this means that the top of the mast is benind your sitting out position (i.e. loads of mastbend).

The mastbend means that the top half of the sail is board flat (Good) with power generated by the lower half. For this reason don't pull on much outhaul until it gets seriously windy as you'll need some grunt low down.

Steve B
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