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Fastest dinghy?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote hurricane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Fastest dinghy?
    Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 9:27pm

ok the tornado has cleaned up on handicap so who eva said that doesnt know what they are talking about if u want to win in ca sailing and are any good u will sail a tornado if u cant handle the speed then u best do something clever and buy a silly slow boat like a laser 4000!!!!  hehe nah they are a good dinghy but nothing compared to a tornado sport!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Harry44981! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 8:11pm
make a holiday out of it- i went this summer- its a really nice place, and windy most of the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by rogerd

Which raises the question. Why no cats? Did they feel they had no chance

 

Maybe they were not invited ?

I would love to have a go at it, but it would be a bit of a treck for me...

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 4:48pm

Which raises the question. Why no cats? Did they feel they had no chance

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 11:33am

From the Daily sail....

The start, with eight of the 18 Skiffs, 18 windsurfers, 14 kite boards and two 29er skiffs thrashing about in a steep chop just outside the Golden Gate, was a spectacular sight not often seen in sailing.

 

So no Cats were sailing but I would fancy a go at that one...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 10:41am
I dont know much about these things but where were the Cats in the two bridges race. That is a drag race between two points and I think the 18ft skiff was just beaten by a board.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 04 at 12:23am
Originally posted by Scooby_simon

My inter 17 IS faster than a 49er.  Simple as that.  On UK yardstick I rate at 735 and the 49er at 750.  I do struggle against them in the lighter stuff, but as soon as  Iam wiring, it's bye bye.

Tornado IS MUCH faster than a 18 footer, cannot find the article from the tornado web site, but when they were testing the new big rig a couple of years ago, first time out they went to play with some 18 footers and the author was saying something like, Faster up wind, but not by much and totally swept them away downwind.  I'll try and find the piece later.



What sort of conditions are you sailing in? What level are the 49er crews?

Re the Tornado v 18 quote. I think it came from Bundy & Forbes, who also said that they go half as fast again downwind (or a third as fast again?) with the new rig.

But strangely, as mentioned, when the Tornadoes here changed their rig, the yardstick dropped only 3 points; 66 to 69. Dropped 5% or so is NOT equivalent to going half as fast for half the race! So they must be exxagerating, or else the new T would clean up every race on yardstick. Yet even B & F are not out-of-sight ahead of the As and T 4.9s and F 18s on yardstick results IIRC.

 And while they do seem to have an advantage under that ridiculously small drop, it's not enormous - we can beat the Australian Tornado champ on yardstick with the T 4.9, and the national T 4.9 champ does it most of the time (as does the recent world A Class champ) at our club. The former Nacra world champ with his F 18 is also very competitive at our club from memory. Ergo, the Tornado CAN'T be 1/3 as fast again under kite as they claim.

While I know the quote, I dunno, I'll still prefer to stay with the results of racing (determined in the 18 v T contest, AND in the handicaps derived from raciing experience).

I'd love to see another organised contest between the two, 'cause I admit I haven't seen too many contests between a spi cat and a skiff. The racing we've done in the T 4.9 sloop against the T 4.9s with kite shows how bloody quick they are downwind in the moderate, I admit, so I'm still open ont h e question although I tend to favour the skiff.


 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 04 at 2:09pm

Jim,

were not on the same wave length here.  The Tornado I was talking about was just drag racing the 18 footers.  C class cats in their latest guise are very fast in light(er) stuff, but the solid sails and hull shapes cannot cope with the big stuff.

In the lighter stuff (F3 as you quote) is not that windy, you will be quicker than a few cats down wind.  Try it in an F6+

 

I think you would find that if you started at an up wind mark, even a spitfire (Schrs 104) sould be just a little faster down wind that you.  A tornado would be in a different ball park. 

Once above about F3-4 I have never been overtaken by a Skiff down wind (49er's mainly at grafham)  - At our club championship a few weeks ago in a nice F4 I was approx 5 Minutes ahead of the 49ers in a 40 minute race - Not all my gains were upwind 

Skiffs are fast, but cats are faster (When there is some proper wind around)



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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 04 at 12:44pm
Simon, as far as top speed is concerned the yardstck means next to nothing. The yardstick represents vmg round the course averaged over all conditions. The Cats are superb moderate wind machines, especially upwind, and they do get round the course very fast. But downwhill when the wind gets up the skiffs just get faster as the multis top out.

Do you know Steve Clark (the owner of Cogito, the top C Class) claims that the maximum speed he's ever got out of Cogito is 23 knots. That's standard skiff territory. But in 8 knots of breeze Cogito will do 19knots, and there's not a skiff in the world that would have a prayer of living with that.

I don't often get to race against cats, but the other year I got to race against the top of the Unicorn fleet. They slaughter us round the track because they're so fast upwind, but in a f4 downwind the Cherub is easily quicker. The only spinnaker cat I've ever lined up against is a Spitfire, and I have no idea how good the ones we happened to sail next to were, but the Cherub was the same speed offwind in F3. Upwind again was quite another matter, they're far faster.

One of the most impressive sights I know in sailing is something like a big Nacra hurtling upwind in a breeze with a feather of spray from the leeward bow. Ye gods they are quick. But downhill they don't go that much faster in the way that my Cherub, for instance goes more than twice as fast (that's measurable in real numbers) on a flat out reach as on a beat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 04 at 7:39am

My inter 17 IS faster than a 49er.  Simple as that.  On UK yardstick I rate at 735 and the 49er at 750.  I do struggle against them in the lighter stuff, but as soon as  Iam wiring, it's bye bye.

Tornado IS MUCH faster than a 18 footer, cannot find the article from the tornado web site, but when they were testing the new big rig a couple of years ago, first time out they went to play with some 18 footers and the author was saying something like, Faster up wind, but not by much and totally swept them away downwind.  I'll try and find the piece later.

 

 

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