New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: your responsibilities as a sailor
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

your responsibilities as a sailor

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1617181920 21>
Author
Do Different View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Jan 12
Location: North
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1312
Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: your responsibilities as a sailor
    Posted: 20 May 13 at 7:10pm
Sorry PM, the Bethwaite system is a ball & keyhole.
I am talking about a flush plate with a hook, further research has into past forum strings has revealed the John Waddington design as that I have seen. Anybody know of them in regular use or suppliers? 
Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202
Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 7:28pm
ahh, yes I remember seeing something like that once... hope the forum hive can provide a link too.
Back to Top
craiggo View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 01 Apr 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 8:08pm
Neither the flat plate nor the bethwaite system, really work with the modern flat wiring position. The angle of the wire to the harness is such that you can easily become separated. It worked fine when we trapezed more up right. As for BAs I'm not really sure either way. I had an incident sailing a 14 where during a capsize recovery I got caught under the boat and the BA held me against the bottom, luckily I was able to push off of the daggerboard to get out. I have sailed a couple of times without, and felt very vulnerable. With trapeze harnesses my biggest hook up was on the wing to hull elastic on the 700 with the boat going in to windward. In my panic I managed to snap the elastic and broke free, but it was a scary few seconds. That said the danger has never stopped me sailing and probably never will.
As to whether we have a duty of responsibility to the club, well if you are a member, then damn right you do, and as such you owe it to all the other members to do your bit too make it as safe as possible. Whether the same can be said if you are a customer? I'd say not. As a customer you pay for a defined service however that service can come with Ts&Cs to prevent you making an arse of yourself.
I'm comfortable with change, and reluctant to get bogged down in doing it the way it's always been done, but it will be a sad day if members sailing clubs gave way to customer oriented pay to sail centres.
Back to Top
tick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Nov 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 9:09pm
I have never had a scary moment with a trap harness, when I did that kind of thing. I am also a lousy swimmer who is easily terrified so a BA is a must. I would have thought the mainsheet was the worst thing. I have had that wrapped round my feet a few times and a  poor guy drowned at Abersoch a few years ago with sheet wrapped round his neck.
Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202
Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 10:33pm
Wasn't there a trap involved at the Abersoch one tick? Laser 4000 iirc?
Back to Top
sargesail View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1459
Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 13 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Wasn't there a trap involved at the Abersoch one tick? Laser 4000 iirc?

James,

If we're thinking of the same incident I'm not sure it was either.  It was a 4000, but IIRC there were other factors.
Back to Top
tick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 16 Nov 12
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
Post Options Post Options   Quote tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 13 at 7:45am
A gruesome thing to discuss but I thought it was a 400...no trap? It seems that dinghy sailing is pretty safe (touch wood) but is there any kind of record kept of accident causes? At our club we once had a near serious powerboat incident, like the recent tragic Cornwall one, and a case of hypothermia.There was a heart attack death but that had nothing to do with sailing.
Back to Top
winging it View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3958
Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 13 at 8:21am
It was a laser 4000.  The crew was crawling forward along the deck to deal with a tangled spinny when his harness hook got caught on a lower shroud.  The boat then capsized and he couldn't free the hook, plus there was a sheet caught round his neck. 

There was a second similar incident in USA where a hook got caught on a shroud.  The lessons learned from these incidents report the need to right the dinghy as quickly as possible, rather than try to free the caught persons whilst under the water.  Same with the Kielder Water fatality.

One of the joys of being an RTC Principal is you get to read all this stuff.  Lessons do get learned after such incidents, and new guidelines are produced.  One such after Kielder is that training boats should be fitted with mast head floats and also the boats must be fitted with devices to stop centre boards falling back into cases should the boat invert.

Clubs should keep accident and incident reports and anything serious will automatically be investigated by MAIB.  Their findings then get reported to people like me and changes made.  There have been changes to the pb2 sysllabus for example - no sharp u turn stops - too many people falling out of the boat.  Plus all the new pb guidelines for training boats.
the same, but different...

Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 13 at 8:55am
I might have missed a bit here, but there is a trapeze spreader which is totally flush, young dumberer uses it to good effect, and the ball and hole idea was a US creation IIRC. Got a feeling the flush plate is built by someone in the Kent area, up Dartford way, they'd probably have it at that All Good Fun shop or know where to get them, I'd like to see a trigger operated system like my kitesurfing release, the one's that I think RWO have give you the tendency to lose the hook if deployed.

We went in on Sunday, really annoying went from bad start to rounding first then back to last again because he couldn't unhook quick enough when the boat was up on it's side so took the inevitable jump down into the sail (we now have a hole in it), a quick release would have prevented that, very difficult to knock it out when it's under tension, I think the solution is a better design at the trapeze hanging bits you hook into.
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499
Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 13 at 8:58am
Originally posted by winging it

Not really.  Compensation culture is a relatively modern phenomenon, whereas buoyancy aids have been compulsory in most sailing clubs for more than twenty years.  Interestingly I was looking at a club website where BAs were only compulsory for kids, not adults.  The club was Hickling Broad, in Norfolk....



There was a big windsurfing community at Hickling, certainly back in the day, not sure nowadays, but they have at least bequeathed some common sense..
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1617181920 21>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy