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The RS100 Owners Thread |
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blaze720 
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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 Topic: The RS100 Owners ThreadPosted: 03 Jun 14 at 6:35pm |
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We are still getting very strongly 'encouraged' by some towards an asymetric singlehander project ourselves. I'm not sure we really want to go that direction commercially yet and I'd need to be very convinced in the shorter term. But 'FIRE' (8.8m) is now confirmed as a Blaze based sub-class just like Halo (11.5m) and is probably the better for it commercially as existing hulls can also be used - the low cost entry route so many wanted is confirmed.
This leaves our 'uber-lightweight' carbon Blaze hull 'available'. It would be a terrible waste just to load it with lead now as a Blaze demo boat ... when we could explore what a fully developed asymetric version really could be like. Hence the questions .... Anyway we will be using it as the basis for a bit of a 'special'. There is absolutely no promises it will ever go beyond a 'project' - the market seems littered enough with casualties and heavy discounting - we must be potty really but experiments are rarely 'time wasted. However this hull will be an exceptional platform for testing everything and as usual we will 'borrow' any good ideas or concepts we can find wherever they are and all without a single trace of any shame ! So who wants what ? Mike L. PS - I'll leave GRF perhaps to introduce a seperate thread in due course ... he knows enough already ! |
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:16pm |
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No, not on here, and I'm guessing not willing to comment publicly either. But it's telling that those whom have, have universally picked one over the other, even at the expense of 'other loyalties' which should probably sway them in the other direction.
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Null
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Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:12pm |
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Mike, in fairness there is know one on this forum that has sailed both for an extensive amount of time to be able to site the pitfalls and benefits of both boats (it never stopped us before i hear you say)
So to my mind, i think part of the 100 downfall is the boat. It is notoriously hard to get back in after a capsize, its hardwork uphill and secondly how it was marketed (mentioned in my post above) To make it a better boat it needed more beam and probably a less complicated rig (proper shoruds) The D1 is not perfect (no boat is) but it has the raw basics, beam, effective rig and more stability. To my mind if both boats were being designed again you would almost want a hybrid of both!! Maybe even a blaze with a kite, but you never saw the market. As for accepting the concept for a moment...I hazard a guess the two fleets have sold more than most classes over the last 3 years even standing on their own. In my opinion the D1 will continue to grow, much like the Musto has. It really starting to find its feet with handfuls of people moving from established classes like the Phantom. Give it another 3 years and it will be a consistentcontender for the 40+ Nationals attendance tables IMHO
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:12pm |
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RS100:
- smaller kite - forget the complex mast and shrouds, go simpler (MPS style) - one mainsail size and uniform class development - daggerboard D-One: - the new deck moulding from the word go - a better exchange rate at launch - anything but 1980's royal blue in the first photos - better marketing / editorial on the rig and why it works |
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blaze720
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:50pm |
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... so beyond location and accepting the 2-sail singlehander hiking concept for a moment .. what is good about each and what could have been better ? More sail / less sail .. wider / narrower lighter/ 'standard' ? etc etc
Mike L. |
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:45pm |
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FWIW- my opinion can be summed up with the name 'Kirstie Allsopp'..... Location, Location, Location is so important. On a small stretch of water, or within a traditional racing infrastructure of cats cradle courses, I believe the demand was/is rather short lived with a limited appeal.
So you look to a larger lake or sea venue, and you apply longer legs to get that kite to pay. Well that's a double-edge sword, unlike snow-sports no one has fitted a drag lift to take you uphill again, therefore you are really only appealing to the limited number of folks who don't want a trapeze boat. From observation, the D-One is less of a ball-ache than the RS100- I guess beam and gust response is king in the design. Where there is a viable niche seems to be in racing against 200s and 400s- that seems to work quite well. I certainly enjoyed racing 4s and 2s at various handicap events in mine. To the point where I wasn't bothering club sailing it anymore.
I'm not just basing this on my own experience, but we had 4 RS100s at the club I sailed mine at, none are there now. I also understand that the RS100s at Chelmarsh are being sold up as part of an upgrade to a fleet RS Aeros. I don't know that for sure, I heard it third hand, but it wouldn't surprise me. The Aero would be a far better boat for the location. |
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blaze720
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Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 4:32pm |
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Out of interest - what are the relative strengths and weaknesses of the current competitors in this niche ? ie 100 and D-1 .... What could have been or should have been different ?
Mike L. |
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kneewrecker
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Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:54pm |
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I assume you disagree, I guess perception is a personal thing. But no, no hype, no marketing bullsh*t, no claims of laws of physics defying performance or even a dodgy PY number to skew opinion one way or t'other. Sure there's a few amateur videos and some commentary from prospective customers who've tried it. A bit of open Q&A between punters and Dan/Rodney.... really, it couldn't be less hyped if it tried. A simple exercise of compare and contrast, I offer you one other new design / new class to consider... no not that one, even that's not that hyped; try the MX-Next from Vlad, or what about the Shaw 4.0?
Edited by kneewrecker - 03 Jun 14 at 3:57pm |
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Null
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Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:41pm |
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Jim, with respect you need to look outside of the Y&Y forum to understand that there is very little in the way of hype. There are no videos of people lifting a boat on a show stand or 'Flash' websites. The only hype is from consumers who have purchased a boat, with the designer and retailer answering questions. Hardly the wheels of a multimillion pound marketing machine turning are they, or videos/interviews with Olympians waxing lyrical!
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Null
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Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 3:38pm |
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For me, the problem RS had/have is the need to flood the market with initial sales. In many cases to the wrong people. They market boats as a one size fits all and sell allot of boats to allot of people, who then suffer with buyers remorse when they realise they have made a bad decision. This then forces an influx of stock into the used market place which intern causes others to distress sell. Which has a medium term effect on new boat sales; people question the value of purchasing a boat. The residuals look shocking, the new boat price support is dropped (is a new 100 £9500) which compounds the problem. At the same time marketing support all but stops and the initial shiny new class feeling is lost. Couple this with people starting to have small warranty issues and you can see why its in decline. This is before mentioning people questioning rules around sail sizes, or even how good/bad the boat goes uphill.
in order to make a product a success there needs to be a demand in the market place. limiting or controlling supply is a good way of instigating a demand. Or let a product grow organically after an early adoption scheme. In my industry we see both styles of selling both with merits, but ling term in a much smaller industry such as the marine industry i know which i think is a better model for the consumer....
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