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Nice new Laser for Christmas

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iiitick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nice new Laser for Christmas
    Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 9:51am
Being a sailor of limited ability, stature, wealth and intelligence I have always looked at these boats from a different point of view. The EPS looked pretty hot standing still but all the sexy add on's seemed to do little in the way of increased performance over Laser. It looked radical but did not deliver. I have great affection for 300, it succeeds because it is radical and looks radical. Probably average Joe can get into an EPS and cope but he will struggle with a 300 however he will go a lot faster in the 300. That is the way it should be, performance comes at a cost. At one point we had six 300's at our club but they have now dwindled to one and he is considering a D Zero for the future. GRF found much of this to his own cost when he bravely (arrogantly) tried to build a performance craft with integral hamper.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:06am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

In your day Clive, you dreamed of something as fast as the royal mail 2nd class service.

It's true I learned to sail in something designed when there were 4 reliable mail deliveries per day. Perhaps this is why my dinghy is never as flat as I know it should be. And Grumph would love a go in a Troy I'm sure, even though these Red Lasers are about as one-design in practice as these hand built beauties (allegedly) 





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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:10am
It's funny how we remember things....

The EPS came out, one was brought across to demo at our club.  A few of us jumped in it, it was 'alright' but we couldn't see what the fuss was about and why on earth we would want to upgrade our Lasers for one and lose our class racing.  On reflection 'if you think RS are hyping the Aero' then you've not seen anything.... the EPS was stupidly hyped, with ridiculous over promise, under deliver performance.... almost on a par with the MX-Ray.

The 300 came out - and looked a bit 'weird', but it was the purchase and rapid re-sale by one of our better female sailors at our club which stuck the nail in the coffin for it for me.  I had assumed that it was a boat aimed at lighter weights, the review I read  in probably Y&Y featured Shirley- it wasn't a boat, or so I had thought, for a guy who liked beers and kebabs.

I can't remember seeing them much between c. 96 and 2004 ish.  I'm sure they were in their heyday doing class stuff and traveling to Garda, but they didn't hit my radar at the clubs I sailed at around the UK.    It was a bit later when I saw some 'heavy-wind optimised' sailors at Draycote sailing them- and having a ball too.  Riki even confirmed that the 300 was 'misunderstood' when I picked up my first Vareo from RS.  I had no idea then that I would own one at some point, and it would be one of the few boats I'd  actually come to regret selling, and selling for the wrong reasons.  

It's still a boat I'm extremely fond of, and there are aspects of it which I feel through the D-Zero too... albeit in a far tamer and manageable package.      Onwards and upwards.... 
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:32am
Originally posted by craiggo

We certainly live in a changed world now, and I'd hate to be a marketing man in the current climate where every man, woman, child can give their views founded or not, without having a physical face to respond to. It also makes it very difficult to convince potential buyers to ignore the cr*p and focus only on the genuine users reviews.

I dunno, I think it's far easier today.  As someone I truly respect said to me the other day, people buy into a boat because of those whom they can sail it against as much as the boat itself.  

Having been an early adopter in two new classes since the advent of the internet, we now have the benefit of being able to build class community up before anyone even sets foot in their boat for the first time.  I lost count of the number of people at Parkstone (RS100 first nationals) who said they felt like they all knew each other, yet hadn't ever met physically before.

I'd imagine there was a similar vibe at Grafham with the D-Zeros - not that I was there to witness it unfortunately.  But I can assure you it's infectious and a wholly pleasant experience.  The Aeros will have this too no doubt. 

Think also about the practicalities and costs.....

Print journalism is really downtrending, so ad revenues will naturally fall.  This means it costs less to get your message out there.  Or at the very least you can use other channels for a more targeted approach with a better ROI.  There's a reason RS are no longer current advertisers in the printed Y&Y magazine, but happy to banner sponsor sailing anarchy.

You can launch a new class on a relatively shoe-string budget if you engage a social network.  Sufficient quality footage can be obtained with an iPhone and a digital camera to provide some basic marketing collateral- hopefully enough to interest someone in a test sail anyway.  A website can be produced, to an almost professional grade standard, for free, if you engage with active volunteers early on.  And if you can build a community of early-adopters, they are people who provide content and sell word of mouth on your behalf- except these days word of mouth includes their Facebook account, twitter feed, text message and well as club bars and changing rooms.  I'm not pretending it's easy, or indeed without hassle and aggravation and frustration, but the option is there now, whereas 15 years ago you needed to be a Laser, Topper or a very edgy, seat of your pants 'RS' to even consider launching a new performance dinghy.  

You could argue that too much of a professional approach isn't actually what's needed, not here anyway.   (The US market is grossly different I'm sure).   I'm one for accusing bigger budget producers for over-hyping sailing products, but really, are they any worse than amy other bigger brand-orientated outfit?  And it's not like it hasn't gone on for some time- it's good to know Jim and his cohorts were ribbing 'L5Kfanboy' back in the 90's on compuserve.  Good effort LOL    When a company becomes a brand, and a general ethos become 'core values', then a customer base will soon become a client base; things change for good or bad or indifferent reasons.... subtle nuances, but a transition we're seeing play out with RS to a level today.  I hope they see this thread as a glimpse of a potential future.... because Sailboats and LaserPerformance really don't come out too nicely from it.  Few here would want to see RS actually fail, but there's certainly a fair few who would pop the cork if LPE went bust and a new builder / licence holder was appointed for Bruce's baby.

But at least the Aero won't be the Aero GS next autumn, replaced the Aero GST the autumn after.  (I guess I've always admired sailing as a sanctuary away from 'real world' consumerism, and a chat with Dan, Rodney, the guys from HD sails, Dave at Winder boats, Tom @ P&B, and Riki or Demo etc has me far more engaged than a bullet pointed list of unique selling points)  

 I'm sure one of the reasons I feel no affinity with the Zhik brand is that they come across as a bit too slick for their own good- f**k it, I'll stick with Rooster or Gill or Sandiline rather than pay for that thanks- hot girls though.




Edited by kneewrecker - 04 Dec 14 at 10:51am
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Mark Jardine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:36am
While I have no issue with people having different opinions on things, please refrain from getting personal in your posts. It's Christmas time so keep your handbags at bay!
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:53am
Back in the day I remember when people actually came to look at boats they wanted to buy rather than demanding pics, we looked at the forecast in the paper, on teletext or the radio and went to the event regardless (without knowing who else was going) and when I wanted to buy something I had to get out the Northampton Sailboats paper catalogue then phone them up.....


the same, but different...

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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 10:56am
That Zhik photo, used for something a little light-hearted, was grabbed from this report:


it's an interesting article...  Geek
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 11:55am
I've been watching that Mad men just recently... Wimmen in their place..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by iiitick

GRF found much of this to his own cost when he bravely (arrogantly) tried to build a performance craft with integral hamper.</span>


I wouldn't have said bravely, I don't think it was brave, it might be with the next one as I'm self building it in wood and it could fall apart, the other one didn't break up, it's main failing came down to build weight, it was just too damn heavy to be bothered with, in the end if I'm honest. Stupid maybe, arrogant probably, but nothing ventured...

I do at least know the concept works, so this next one (even though the breadknife remarked negatively when she came across the sketch pad after daughter No 4 nicked it whilst i was out last night and started up with the Christmas Card sketches.) should be the success I'm looking for (given the goal posts have also shifted and I need it to cope down the lake).
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 14 at 12:29pm
Finally grumpf succumbs to the virtues and joys of wood bothering.
the same, but different...

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