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Nice new Laser for Christmas
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nice new Laser for Christmas
    Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 2:29pm
More like the picture was missed again, It wasnt sniping at the class was it.  More around a video that was posted...Yet again, nothing to do with the boat (what so ever) more over a statement at how fast it was being sailed upwind.  In fact it was a point raised by Vroony, not James, myself or anyone else.
 
I know the thought of axes to grind is a fun one, but sadly its simply not true.The negativity comes from frankly dubious claims. Much like with this marketing cock up by LPE.  Companies put this sh*t in the public domain.  Therefore its fair game to talk about it, pick at it and have an opinion. 
 
Its not picking holes in a boat.  I for one have said a hundred times i have not sailed one.
 
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 3:22pm
I reserve the right to still think was a horrendously cynical, and therefore failed, marketing attempt... 

For that I am told, I am a conspiracy theorist.  

 Whereas I'd say... no, sorry guys, the probability that there was a 'problem with the copy to the marketing department' affecting this specific class, right now, this Christmas, about two very specific boat variables: 1) hull weight and 2) mast rake,  in the face of this document below reaching the public domain, is rather too much of a stretch- even for me.

But do make your own mind up... you're all more than welcome to your opinion that they're not bullsh*ting us if you want.  


Edited by kneewrecker - 03 Dec 14 at 3:25pm
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by TeamSailboats

We Apologies for the Laser Avert being incorrectly sent last Friday as this has caused confusion between Sailors. We would like to make clear this advertisement is misleading due to the Strict One Design Laser and boat advertised does not exist.  The Marketing information in regards to Hull Weight and Mast Rake was written for the New Z420 Advert in which our Marketing Department edited incorrectly. Sailboats try our best to communicate the correct information at the time but sadly on this occasion we failed to do so.   Please accept our sincere apologies for this error. Sailboats are independent of LaserPerformance and we pride ourselves on being the UK’s largest Dealer for LaserPerformance Europe LTD

http://www.sailboats...SA20141201.html



rather coincidental:

1) hull weight claims
2) mast rake claims
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by bustinben

I think all this may be moot anyway in practice - how does LPE or Sailboats.co.uk know what the "optimum mast rake" is?  

Reputational damage to the class aside that is.  

And that notwithstanding the fact that any decent laser sailor knows that the "all boats are the same" thing is utter b**locks anyway.

Dead

Since our Lasers come from a different builder I don't know whether the claim about your Lasers is correct, but where is the objective evidence that there is a discernible speed difference between Lasers today?

In your earlier posts you have disputed claims by other people about Aussie boats being faster, you disputed the claims that the optimal weight range of Radials is narrow, and claimed that the sails were better than others reckon. To be honest IMHO you're right in all of those points, but is there any more or less evidence for the claim that there is significant variation between Lasers than there is for the claims you dispute?

One can feel a difference between Lasers (or THINK one can feel a difference, which is quite a different matter) but finding hard evidence of an actual speed difference in current boats appears to be impossible, unless the boat is actually beaten up or broken. 


Edited by Chris 249 - 03 Dec 14 at 9:06pm
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

Originally posted by sargesail

Originally posted by Rupert

I'm sure there is some axe grinding going on on this thread - the odd new name popping up with a constant variation of a theme on every post - I think I'll start a conspiracy theory that certain people on this thread have ulterior motive to put Sailboats down by spreading rumours and insisting on dishonesty rather than error.

Nah - they are all far too busy sniping at new singlehanders....

another useful contribution from Sargesail I see.  Discussing, even dissing boats and products that are being sold to us is one thing; dissing other forum user contribution, whether you agree or not with their opinion, well it doesn't feel so good does it?

More like the picture was missed again, It wasnt sniping at the class was it.  More around a video that was posted...Yet again, nothing to do with the boat (what so ever) more over a statement at how fast it was being sailed upwind.  In fact it was a point raised by Vroony, not James, myself or anyone else.
 
I know the thought of axes to grind is a fun one, but sadly its simply not true.The negativity comes from frankly dubious claims. Much like with this marketing cock up by LPE.  Companies put this sh*t in the public domain.  Therefore its fair game to talk about it, pick at it and have an opinion. 
 
Its not picking holes in a boat.  I for one have said a hundred times i have not sailed one.

Didn't mention which *ero.  Didn't name names.  But seems you couldn't resist wearing a well fitting cap.

And I'm not going to leave it alone, not least because I know the damage that similar behaviour did to both the 300 and the EPS when they were in competition.

The irony is that I hadn't even read your comments on the Aero thread today when I posted that.  I didn't get the Vronny reference until just now...I thought you were referring, back in ancient history, to some comments I made about your comments on a video on Facebook.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:31pm
Matt, think what you want, write in a nice agressive colour like red.  Be the wanna e forum hard man.  I am not the only one with well fittings caps.  The Internet forums did no damage with the eps vs 300 as frankly I. 1998 they simply did not exisist so stop pushing the bullsh*t round like a dung beetle because you have your own agendas.  Read the forums before making personal digs at people...I now see why some members of other fleets had such an opinion on you.  
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:38pm
Responding in red carries less weight and allegedly has an optimised rake.
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by Null

Matt, think what you want, write in a nice agressive colour like red.  Be the wanna e forum hard man.  I am not the only one with well fittings caps.  The Internet forums did no damage with the eps vs 300 as frankly I. 1998 they simply did not exisist so stop pushing the bullsh*t round like a dung beetle because you have your own agendas.  Read the forums before making personal digs at people...I now see why some members of other fleets had such an opinion on you.  

I said nothing about forums....I said behaviour.  It was slower by word of mouth....but just as damaging in the long run.

I suppose I could have chosen a nice pale blue for contrast since I couldn't quite manage to quote both of you in one post, but I like red, and as James suggests it's kind of appropriate in this thread.

One man's aggression is another's not rolling over....

What's my agenda?

Where was my personal dig here?  The cap fits?  QED I'm afraid.

I suppose you could suggest I made one over on the Aero forum - in my view I just called you....

Again the irony is that I edited out the bit about preparing for a blast from the forums alpha males.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:50pm
Can you type faster in red?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 14 at 9:58pm
Well I have asked for a group of officials from the RT(yping)Association and the UKF(orums)Class Association to come in and so some independent sampling to verify the data.  My fear is that it will be inconclusive whether any detectable speed difference is because of the chosen colour or other factors such as waves of nausea provoked by forum B*llsh*t.

Unfortunately they said they were too busy looking after real sailors needs to bother.  Which was just as well because the commercial reality was that I didn't give a d*mn.  Although I have given a minor telling off to the marketing department which suggested red was more eye catching in the first place.
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