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transient View Drop Down
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Posts: 715 		Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Published Hull Weights
    Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 2:42pm
Yes, originally I highlighted that the published RS200 hull weight of 78 kgs could be construed as misleading. They do publish an all up weight of 114 kgs but as many other classes don't publish the all up weight the only real point of reference for comparison is the hull weight......now if they put the "fitted" hull weight on their spec sheet I'd be satisfied.

As far as I'm concerned the RS200 claimed variation of 2-3 kgs is perfectly acceptable, I have no evidence of larger variations. (apart from rumours of repaired Brazilian boats) We sailed ours for the first time last weekend and we're absolutely delighted with it. 

I have enjoyed the rest of the thread though, I thought it very interesting  Smile Hull weight is clearly an issue that needs highlighting, perhaps the manufacturers would get their acts together if every customer demanded to know the weight. 


Edited by transient - 24 Apr 13 at 2:49pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by transient

Yes, originally I highlighted that the published RS200 hull weight of 78 kgs could be construed as misleading. 


... perhaps the manufacturers would get their acts together if every customer demanded to know the weight. 

I think it would be a smart thing to do to weigh a new boat before paying. SMOD or not ...

I did that with the last Laser I bought, it was spot on and the bloke doing the handover showed me his spreadsheet of all the boats in stock and they were all within 1kg. I was very impressed with the low variance.

Seems other builders need to try a bit harder.
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by 2547


Originally posted by Ian29937

Originally posted by 2547


Originally posted by Dougaldog

<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> I'd go so far as to suggest that the failure of the major designs to control their own rules has certainly helped feed the growth of the SMOD.....</span>

Maybe a factor but the main issue is the ease of use/ownership ... the irony in that is that one of the perceptions of ease of ownership is that you don't have to bother with measurement and measurement certificates.
That is all very well if you trust your supplier to produce evenly matched boats that meet the published specification.
Clearly this thread confirms that some manufactures are not quite delivering what they are advertising ... 


Which is why the designer and class association took the rights to build away...

Eh ... I think the OP was highlighting that his RS200 was 12kgs more than advertised ... has the RS200 changed?


Sorry, forgot we were originally on RS200's - I'd shifted to the 2000   
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by 2547

I did that with the last Laser I bought, it was spot on and the bloke doing the handover showed me his spreadsheet of all the boats in stock and they were all within 1kg. I was very impressed with the low variance.

That is a lot closer than the old Performance Sailcraft Laser Construction Manual permitted tolerance I've seen.  Is your experience post-Olympic selection of the Laser I wonder?  Maybe that caused them to tighten up for the Laser 1 at least - which would be a nice consequence; worth paying a couple of extra quid for in fact.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by 2547

I did that with the last Laser I bought, it was spot on and the bloke doing the handover showed me his spreadsheet of all the boats in stock and they were all within 1kg. I was very impressed with the low variance.

That is a lot closer than the old Performance Sailcraft Laser Construction Manual permitted tolerance I've seen.  Is your experience post-Olympic selection of the Laser I wonder?  Maybe that caused them to tighten up for the Laser 1 at least - which would be a nice consequence; worth paying a couple of extra quid for in fact.

It was an ex-worlds charter boat, a very good deal too ...
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ChrisJ View Drop Down
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Posts: 337 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 8:09pm
RE:>> adopts a head in the sand attitude to variations in hull weight.
Sorry, but I don't agree. The 2000 Association has been badgering LP for 2 or 3 years (since the variations became known) about the weights. This I believe is one of the reasons why LP no longer wanted to build the boat: The CA were basically telling people don't buy the boat unless the weight has been sorted. And LP were finding they couldn't build to the price required and keep to the quality required.

With the change to LDC as the builder, the weights HAVE been sorted for the future. With very clear guidance from the builder as to the weights they will build to, and the quality control they will put in place in order to meet that weight.

As for close racing at Wilsonian: just take a look at the variations in the winners over the last few years: they have varied from 10 year old boats to new this year... NO differences in speed, unless it is in peoples heads!
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 13 at 8:53pm
Fair enough, my experience of the L2k forum stopped a few years ago.

Is the LDC target weight range known?

Weight was not a personal concern of mine, least of all for club racing at Wilsonian, though from my assessment of the relative abilities of the sailors involved, I think it might be having some influence on the results. 
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Posts: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Times 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 13 at 8:22pm

Just found this thread; So what do you guys think about the Supernova reducing the hull weight on new boats produced by Hartleys? As I understand it the new Epoxy version (sail numbers after 1030) have a new hull weight of just 50kg. That is some 12.5kg lighter than all the other Supernovas produced prior to that number as the original minimum weight was 62.5kg. Apparently the class association have agreed this change in specification for the boat. Bet those guys that have an old version at 62.5kg are feeling not to happy as in one change thay have been left with boats that are now not as competitive as new ones? No allowance has been made either for the owners of these weighty Supernovas to reduce the weight of their boats either. Seems rather unsporting of Hartleys/Supernova Association with regard to their members and ex customers who have the heavy version. Apparently it is a One-design. Not anymore. But then if new boat sales are on the slow side at Hartleys?
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 13 at 8:42pm
Sounds like they've taken the brave decision to dump unnecessary weight, refine the product and shove it back out there in an attempt to find new customers... and if you're footing the bill to help stimulate the fleet with a new boat purchase why not have a bit of an advantage over the guy running the old banger for a couple of grand?    

I can't say I'd turn one down if we had a fleet of them, nicer and more modern than a Laser.  Less cumbersome than my Solo... not a bad little boat, aimed squarely at the club market.  

There should be more fleets of them imho, hopefully when the recession buggers off Hartley's can make that happen.
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Kev M View Drop Down
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Posts: 346 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 13 at 9:09pm
12.5kg? I bet there's more difference in helm weight across the fleet than boat weight.
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