Devotti Single Hander

Originally posted by G.R.F. I've often wondered how that slidey canoe contraption works, what do you do when you tack, kick your feet up slide into the boat on it spinning as you go and kick back out the other side, or is it more of a soft shoe shuffle?

Not sure what the official technique is but I have seen a rank amateur trying a canoe for the first time. if only I had a video camera!

Originally posted by getafix Wings could be much;a) cheaper to add - bolt the tubes to the hull, slide in the wings ala the blazeb) give you similar leverage as the sliding seatc) let you get your weight further backd) provide some 'wipeout stability' (i.e. give you time to recover from a capsize causing gust or lull while being slow because you've got a wing in the water)

In my opinion the seat is way superior to wings once you've got the handling together. And I think I'm in a strong position to say, having built and owned a sub PY950 winged singlehander before I considered a Canoe
Consider
- you can heel the boat without the wing dipping the water which slows you up, steers the boat and generally stuffs things. My winged singlehander would flip more or less immediately if a wing dipped whilst nosediving. A Canoe just doesn't do that.
- there's far more leverage unless you have really preposterously wide wings. The Canoe seat gives the same righting moment as 4.08m wings. By contrast an Int Moth is 2.25, the PlusPlus 3m and a B14 3.04. Only an 18 is wider at 4.27m...

- far less surface area/thus spray drag, aero drag, wing area blowing you over if the boat heels and blowing the hull downind of the mast as soon as you capsize.
- far less room in the dinghy park - most IC covers require you to remove the seat so then the boat's only 3 feet wide.
The getting aft in a breeze thing is far less of an issue than you might think. The ICs have the carriage on fore and aft tracks, and you just slide the thing back for what's going to be a good point for the next leg at the mark rounding. Inland I don't slide it back at all until its over F4... Its probably best with a longer boat though, although a long standing Aussie *teenagers* boat has two planks on an 11ft something hull!

Now I'll admit tacking the Canoe in a serious breeze is a fairly tricky game, but its not *that* hard. You'll see a lot more lousy tacks at my end of the Canoe fleet than at the same end of a Musto skiff fleet I guess, but I'll usually get round even if it takes a couple of goes. My Canoe gets loaned out quite often at the club in the more moderate winds and no-one's ever failed to be able to get out there, tack, gybe and get on the end of the plank.

The seqeance I use for tacking is:-
Release jib. It will stay about half sheeting in because its elasticated to the plank.
Shuffle in on plank, easing main gently, stand on windward gunwhale. With boat heeled slightly, (of course) start tack.
As the boat gets close to head to wind give the plank a big heave, so that it slides across as the boat goes through the wind. Basically the later you leave it the better.
Duck under/run behind main
Jump/flop onto plank
Change hands
sheet jib right home (its already half in because of the elastic...


Edited by JimC

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by getafix Wings could be much;a) cheaper to add - bolt the tubes to the hull, slide in the wings ala the blazeb) give you similar leverage as the sliding seatc) let you get your weight further backd) provide some 'wipeout stability' (i.e. give you time to recover from a capsize causing gust or lull while being slow because you've got a wing in the water) In my opinion the seat is way superior to wings once you've got the handling together. And I think I'm in a strong position to say, having built and owned a sub PY950 winged singlehander before I considered a Canoe Consider - you can heel the boat without the wing dipping the water which slows you up, steers the boat and generally stuffs things. My winged singlehander would flip more or less immediately if a wing dipped whilst nosediving. A Canoe just doesn't do that. - there's far more leverage unless you have really preposterously wide wings. The Canoe seat gives the same righting moment as 4.08m wings. By contrast an Int Moth is 2.25, the PlusPlus 3m and a B14 3.04. Only an 18 is wider at 4.27m... - far less surface area/thus spray drag, aero drag, wing area blowing you over if the boat heels and blowing the hull downind of the mast as soon as you capsize. - far less room in the dinghy park - most IC covers require you to remove the seat so then the boat's only 3 feet wide. The getting aft in a breeze thing is far less of an issue than you might think. The ICs have the carriage on fore and aft tracks, and you just slide the thing back for what's going to be a good point for the next leg at the mark rounding. Inland I don't slide it back at all until its over F4... Its probably best with a longer boat though, although a long standing Aussie *teenagers* boat has two planks on an 11ft something hull! Now I'll admit tacking the Canoe in a serious breeze is a fairly tricky game, but its not *that* hard. You'll see a lot more lousy tacks at my end of the Canoe fleet than at the same end of a Musto skiff fleet I guess, but I'll usually get round even if it takes a couple of goes. My Canoe gets loaned out quite often at the club in the more moderate winds and no-one's ever failed to be able to get out there, tack, gybe and get on the end of the plank. The seqeance I use for tacking is:- Release jib. It will stay about half sheeting in because its elasticated to the plank. Shuffle in on plank, easing main gently, stand on windward gunwhale. With boat heeled slightly, (of course) start tack. As the boat gets close to head to wind give the plank a big heave, so that it slides across as the boat goes through the wind. Basically the later you leave it the better. Duck under/run behind main Jump/flop onto plank Change hands sheet jib right home (its already half in because of the elastic...

all agreed on the leverage argument and will differ to your knowledge of chucking the IC about... but!

- don't believe the drag argument as dipping a plank isn't going to be any more efficient than a wing
- may make some difference in aerodynamic drag but not enough
- wings would be cheaper to tool for and produce
- wings would be much simpler to build into a design

Originally posted by getafix but!- don't believe the drag argument as dipping a plank isn't going to be any more efficient than a wing- may make some difference in aerodynamic drag but not enough-

The aero drag of the plank is well under half of that of wings as there is no lee side wing and the surface area (and its "wetted" surface on both sides don't forget) of the plank is about one fifth or more of the windward side wing.
Dipping the seat is indeed no different to dipping the wing, but you do it at least half as often because there is no lee side wing, and I think most folk hit the lee side wing less than the windward one, so probably a fair bit less than half as often.
The wings force you to sail a bit flatter though, its quite tempting to sail the Canoe a bit too heeled if its gusty.

If ever there were a contraption that makes a bit of sense if you insist on
hiking, it has to be that sliding traveller seat thing, but I guess it must be a
bit last century.

Gives fuel to the imagination and the thought of a bit of revisionism.

Imagine modern rigged assym with a musto style high boom you can stay on
the seat shoot across spinning as you go kick out on the other side.

In fact if they had a similar device on a 49er instead of permanent wings, a
lot of theire bearing off issues would be gone, it probably wouldn't seve
them from pitch poling downhill, but it makes you think...