Hardest nationals to win?

Originally posted by Bumble Nobody has ever won by ''7 straight wins' like the more feeble boat/gear orientated development classes. I can't remember when the scorp nationals wasn't decided on the last day. Without a doubt the most difficult national to win. I encourage you all to come and have a go.

I did my first scorpion nationals this year and I would agree that the level is very high. We made things harder admitedly by hitting the social scene as hard as the sailing itself but it was a very enjoyable week sailing.

In one race we got to the windward mark in around 4th and in others we rounded in next to last without noticeably doing anything different. We were giving it 110% in all the races and people are still sailing faster than you... very irritating but very satisfying when you get it right. I'll be there next year without a doubt!

Regarding the "I can't remember when the scorp nationals wasn't decided on the last day" it just so happens that it was won this year with a day to spare but it was still very tight racing every day

Originally posted by JimC Originally posted by aardvark_issues I have met quite a few people coming up from one designs trying to get to grips with the more technical classes and having to fill huge gaps in their knowledge... And, to be fair, some others coming up from the one designs and picking it all up at an almost humiliating rate...

The thing about having been successful in a one design, you have
residual self confidence. You know as you lose, that it's the boat rather
than you.

Not having that knowledge, gives you twice the disadvantage, you never
know wether its you or your kit that's going slow.

There's an old adage, boatspeed makes you a tactical genius, but its
wasted if you dont realise it is the boat rather than your ability to sail it
fast and in the right direction.

So development classes and handicap stuff like we race in are a useless
environment in which to learn to sail competitively so many folk will never
get it. Only place to really measure the man is where all the kit is the
same. Boards or Boats, makes no difference.

Me, I've done one designs and I've done what we call open class which is
the equivalent of development I guess, and winning Open is a darn site
easier than One Design, all you need to do is throw money at it.

Originally posted by sonic I disagree. I'd say that the most difficult prize in sailing should take an understanding of the fundamentals of sailing rather than just knowledge of a certain type of boat. By this I mean that the person who wins should be able to adjust any sort of boat to suit the conditions. I would personaly say that a laser does not teach you this. You would not expect a formula 1 driver to use a 30 year old design with very little control. They use the latest in technology and this can only be used with the development classes. My opinion would be that one of the most difficult classes to win the nationals would be the Merlin Rocket. Not only is it very technical but also the competition is extremly good and the boats are quite similar. However there is still a lot to adjust and optimize off the water as well as on. I would say this is a major part of sailing and is extremly underestimated by all the SMOD sailor who think adjusting the kicker is the be all and end all.

I would say this is a major part of some sailing and is vastly overated by those who claim it is their motivation for sailing non - SMODs.

"By this I mean that the person who wins should be able to adjust any sort of boat to suit the conditions. I would personaly say that a laser does not teach you this. You would not expect a formula 1 driver to use a 30 year old design with very little control. They use the latest in technology and this can only be used with the development classes."

But the Merlin's got no carbon in the hull, no asymmetric, no wings, no trap, a very heavy hull, even old-fashioned clinker on the topsides; is it really "the latest in technology"????

Ok, it's a lovely boat with good competition, and threads on the MR forum show they do a lovely job in patting each other on the back about how good they all are (despite a lack of the Olympic medal winners etc who you see in other dinghy classes) but wouldn't a test of "the latest in technology" include things like T-foils, wings, traps, lightweight hulls, apparent wind sailing, etc etc etc????

If you really wanted to test the all-round technical ability of the sailor, why restrict it to just the selection and use of the gear? If all-round knowledge is the aim, why not get them to design their own boat, cut their own sails, laminate their own carbon sticks, etc? Why is one group of technical abilities (choosing and using gear) so vital to test and the ability to actually design and create gear irrelevant?

Personally, as someone who sails SMODs and development classes, I have a strong suspicion that while it is possible that there's a tendency of SMOD sailors to ignore technical details, there's also is a tendency of development sailors to over-state them and ignore the fundamentals!

Stefan, while I too agree that Graemef is over the top with the idea you could buy an Int 14 championship, some board classes like the Formula Windsurfers do seem (from the outside) to be very, very "techy", in terms of outhaul and downhaul tune, fin selection, board selection, mast base position etc.

Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd I raced boards for several years, incidentally and I'm not knocking it, but no way is the tuning technical in the way some dinghy and keelboat classes are.

Why should the settings be any less critical because there are less strings to pull? Probably more so I suspect...

Its may well be true that middle of the fleet sailors think less about these things because there is more to be gained by sailing the craft better, but that's equally true of the more open dinghy classes and a lot of boat owners in those classes would get better results if they practised and trained a lot more and fiddled with the boat a lot less (unless of course fiddling with the boat is part of the joy of the sport for them in itself, in which case carry on!).

As for the top end, well tuning always counts when there's 5 seconds between 1st and 2nd at the finishg line, be it the tuning of the traveller and cunningham tension in a Laser or of the fine details of the relationhips betwen foils and wand lengths in a Moth.

Edited by JimC