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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Olympic Sailing - interesting paper
    Posted: 27 Mar 18 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by turnturtle



First and foremost, I think it's a bit difficult to justify why the Olympics needs the Laser and the Finn - they test the same broad on-the-water sailing skillsets- albeit with slight difference in optimum weight, about what, 15kg?  This is nothing in terms of what elite athletes can do to optimise their body for any given sporting pursuit - especially over a 4 year cycle.  


This. Small differences in the choice of class is not variety. There is more potential for variety in race formats that choice of chariot.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 18 at 7:09pm
They've had what? Fifty, no, nearly seventy years to establish the Finn around the world, hows that gone for them?

Looking at the gold medal winners they all seem to come from mainland europe with one NZ exception, all first world, and the Finn is a first world problem.

Give me five years and access to all the reservoirs in Europe and see how many kite racers I could organise.

No room for us until you all get out of the way.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Mar 18 at 7:11pm
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 18 at 7:14pm
The IKA have had 5 years since the 2012 debacle and haven't managed to up the female participation numbers internationally.
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote andy h Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 18 at 7:26pm
Old Timer, you're being selective with your Europe statistics there.  There were 137 of the things racing in Torbole just yesterday.  Never a big class in the UK; we got 19 at our nationals last year.

The future of the Finn post-Olympics could look a lot like the Europe.  It will always be a sophisticated singlehander for the heavyweight Masters sailor in the same way that the Europe suits youth sailors.  Both have a niche they can fill.  In the Europe class we're now down to a single mast builder and one hull builder.  Prices haven't dropped but the rate of kit purchasing has, so there isn't so much money for suppliers to chase.  There are still a good number of sailmakers to choose from and that's where most development continues.

Personally I hope that the Finn keeps its slot.  They look great on the telly and I enjoy watching them a lot more than crash and burn racing.
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 18 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by GarethT

The IKA have had 5 years since the 2012 debacle and haven't managed to up the female participation numbers internationally.

First they get told they're in the Olympics, cue all the RYA and other MNA coaches switching to become kite coaches and all the other established gravy trainers suddenly become expert kiting gravy trainers having done nothing for the sport, then, they get dropped and oh look where have all the gravy trainers gone..

So tell me again what's the incentive to develop the organised side of the sport?

Most of kiting is ex windsurfing and we all remember how badly we got f**ked over the last time, so in reality we couldn't give a rats ass for the Olympics, me I'm just mucking about for the entertainment of giving debate (and winning it in my view)

The Finn won't be dropped especially now it's reached a point when it should be by all modern reason and logic.

Edited by iGRF - 27 Mar 18 at 8:15pm
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 18 at 9:28am
The Finn lobby pulled off a bit of a master stroke when they got their event reclassified as the Heavyweight event thus putting clear ground between the Finn and Laser. 
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Posts: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Quote seasailor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 18 at 9:58am
Haven't read the whole thread so hope I'm not repeating something, but someone said :-

"No-one survives the post Olympic slot come down"

Which sounds to me like the best reason there could be to ditch the Laser!!
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 18 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Old Timer

The Finn lobby pulled off a bit of a master stroke when they got their event reclassified as the Heavyweight event thus putting clear ground between the Finn and Laser. 


Hmm then it got won by the same 1st world white bloke that won in a Laser..

Body size discrimination?

How's that different from segregation by skin colour?

So how many black, asian, or oriental Finn sailors are there again?

Then how many female gender of all of the above?

It's an anachronism in this day and age, no place for it.

Needless to say windsurf and kite sailors are truly multi-national/ethnic/cultural/gender fully representative of our global human melting pot unlike most sailing classes.

There should be no contest Finn v's Us in Olympic representation.

Edited by iGRF - 28 Mar 18 at 10:49am
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 18 at 10:54am
Originally posted by iGRF

It's an anachronism in this day and age, no place for it.

au contraire, there will always be a place for it.... in our hearts and on the water as the true champion's hiking singlehander (mens*).  It shares a pedestal of heritage alongside the 505 and maybe the Contender.  Any genuine, life long dinghy fan would respect the 505 and Finn class champions, even if they've never stepped foot in one themselves.  You just can't outclass class with a whizzbang foiler 2000 or a f#cking kite tray on stilts.  

Whether there's a place for the Finn in the farce that the Olympics will be become is another matter entirely.... now my own generation have passed through the competition, it's going to have to put on something pretty special to capture my imagination in the future, and foiling this and kite flying that, ain't it for me.  And when it comes to the general public, neither is it accessible in the slightest, nor that desirable to actually get off the sofa for either - did any of us have a go at Bobsleigh after the winter games?  It looks great on TV though.... 

* I can't pretend to that there's a female equivalent unfortunately.... maybe when society catches up, the Aero 5 or 7 could fulfil that role as I doubt the Europe is coming back strong?

  
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Posts: 1094 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Bootscooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 18 at 11:47am
Originally posted by iGRF



Needless to say windsurf and kite sailors are truly multi-national/ethnic/cultural/gender fully representative of our global human melting pot unlike most sailing classes.

There should be no contest Finn v's Us in Olympic representation.



Hahahaha, now I've not done a huge amount of research here, but the results from last year's World Sailing Cup at Hyeres, where the kites were taking part to show off their Olympic potential give;



1 FRA FRA 5 17.00 23.00 Nicolas Parlier
2 FRA FRA 4 23.00 34.00 Axel Mazella
3 FRA MON 12 45.00 80.00 Maxime Nocher
4 SLO SLO 1 53.00 77.00 Toni Vodisek
5 FRA FRA 14 61.00 86.00 Titouan GALEA
6 GER GER 2 66.00 92.00 Florian Gruber
7 CRO CRO 17 78.00 114.00 Martin Dolenc
8 FRA FRA 6 82.00 112.00 Theo Lhostis
9 FRA FRA 10 86.00 113.00 Theo de Ramecourt
10 GBR GBR 3 103.00 147.00 Connor Bainbridge
11 FRA FRA 19 60.00 85.00 Kieran LE BORGNE
12 FRA FRA 15 92.00 120.00 Silvio AUBRY
13 FRA FRA 13 94.00 124.00 Thomas Lombardo
14 FRA FRA 9 96.00 129.00 Victor Bachichet
15 FRA FRA 18 109.00 142.00 Benjamin Petit
16 FRA FRA 11 111.00 143.00 Arthur LHEZ

.... and the women;
1 USA n/a   Daniela Moroz
2 FRA n/a   Alexia Fancelli
3 CAN n/a   Catherine Dufour
4 FRA n/a   Ariane Imbert


*sarcasm alert* Impressive numbers and diversity there then....
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