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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 20 Feb 15 at 9:43pm
The thing is though Chris, you talk about your brother and friends and how well they performed with older sails.  But it doesn't address how much better perhaps they could of done if they had newer kit.  I'm sure the difference (outside of the placebo effect) is smaller gains, but at the very front of the game surely those small percentage increases in performance are what makes the difference?  Judging true results is difficult as sailing conditions vary from day to day.  At my level of sailing the placebo effect of new kit has a greater bearing than actual performance increase I suspect.  However it's very valid that those of us sailing the new *eros are finding the racing incredibly close especially as we are all racing equipment exactly the same age, usage etc.  So I can see how older kit is somewhat (maybe marginally) handicapped to newer stuff.
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rich96 View Drop Down
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 15 at 11:53am
Chris also fails to mention that at the Laser Worlds etc the kit (including NEW sails) is provided ?.

As said previously there will always be exceptions and people who have performed well with older kit (well done to them) but the reality is that the top end of the Laser fleet need to keep using fresh gear more often than many other classes. If they chose not to they probably limit their ultimate performance accordingly.

If you are attempting to compete at a reasonable level why would you out that potential additional hurdle in your way ?. As a minimum you would want to know that you had good competitive kit ?

Who else had bought a new Laser sail and after a fairly short term noticed that the leech is fluttering away like the old sail. Why did Rooster add a reinforcement strip to the leech of their 8.1 ?

"The Rooster 8.1 sail is constructed with LONG LIFE and performance in mind. In addition to 4oz Dacron cloth in the main body, the leech is constructed of Mylar, as this is where the highest loads occur. This means that PERMANENT LEECH STRETCH is reduced to almost zero. Leech flutter in between battens is eliminated"

Why would we expect the Laser sails to be quality items (like a beautifully engineered and built OK sail for instance) ? We know that copies that are of least the same quality can be knocked out for less than £150 - you pays your money....

Hopefully the Aero sails will be much better.

As a general rule its probably fair to say that a decent Dacron sail will overall last longer than a mylar/similar sail but that its peak performance life will be less. Horses for courses.







Edited by rich96 - 21 Feb 15 at 12:10pm
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Surfasaurus View Drop Down
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Posts: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Surfasaurus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 15 at 8:26pm
The design of the Laser is unforgiving to leech stretch, because upwind the boom is sheeted block to block and the position of the mast tip is not something that the sailor can do anything about...

...beyond a lot of the laser optimisations such as selecting the boat with as much forward mast rake as possible, selecting the stiffest top mast and also very low stretch horses, and low profile tillers, etc, etc.

In most other boats, as the leech stretches, you can sheet on a little bit harder, just enough to stop it motoring.  In a Laser you can't and you lose the ability to point. In my experience this doesn't happen as quickly as some have suggested and you can get at least 2 good years of club racing, but when it does happen it is pretty obvious.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 15 at 9:17pm
Rich;

I'm not trying to maintain the hijack, but I certainly HAVE mentioned that sails were supplied at the Open Worlds in this context in the past (and in a post here, before I shortened it), it's just that what happened in one regatta was not particularly relevant to the general point - and at most it means you needed two new sails and one old one to make it towards the front end of the worlds fleet....

Null, yes, there's a placebo effect and yes, new sails have a certain advantage, but as you say there are so many factors involved in winning events that IMHO putting so much (negative) emphasis on one aspect is problematic for the sport and the individual.  

Sorry for the hijack but it's hard to stand by when not only do people comment about one's class, but also imply that those who have different views should not be listened to. I'll bail out here.


Edited by Chris 249 - 21 Feb 15 at 9:52pm
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ds2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 30 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ds2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 15 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by Surfasaurus

The design of the Laser is unforgiving to leech stretch, because upwind the boom is sheeted block to block and the position of the mast tip is not something that the sailor can do anything about...
...beyond a lot of the laser optimisations such as selecting the boat with as much forward mast rake as possible, selecting the stiffest top mast and also very low stretch horses, and low profile tillers, etc, etc.
In most other boats, as the leech stretches, you can sheet on a little bit harder, just enough to stop it motoring.  In a Laser you can't and you lose the ability to point. In my experience this doesn't happen as quickly as some have suggested and you can get at least 2 good years of club racing, but when it does happen it is pretty obvious.


Nice balanced post.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 15 at 8:28am
Suggest those of us who want to keep wibbling about Laser sails transfer to other topic...
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 15 at 8:54pm
There was an aero parked up near my space at Draycote- I admired how snug and cool looking the cover was, all motifed up and with a dashing mix two-tone grey. It made the slab of red material atop the D-zero look rather pedestrian. It felt nice to find point of difference where the Aero won...
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 15 at 9:37pm
Jimbo,
You have the demo boat covers mate.  Wait until you see the retail package.  Embroided logos, breather 'peaks'. A real nice finish mate!
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 15 at 9:50pm
Hold up there Russ you're p1ssing on his cornflakes there a bit debunking his theory!

I personally like the Aero rudder stock, forgiving it for not being a dagger stock. And a lot of the other Selden OEM stuff on it.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 15 at 10:09pm
I liked loads of stuff on the Aero. What I didn't like were the cleats. Can't say what I'd like better on the Zero, sadly, as yet to have a go.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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