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Solo changes survey

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    Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by stonefish

These proposed changes are going to be very bad for the class, hardly anyone is going to win with this.

You will piss off the builders because no one is going to buy a new solo anytime soon knowing a new version is coming in a year or so and then more potential changes after that. 

You will piss off the owners that have just purchased new boats because all of a sudden their resale value has dramatically dropped because it's not a new design boat.

You will piss off the owners of perfectly competitive older boats that have no correctors or have removed some to keep it on weight because new boats will come in at 3kg less.

You will piss off any solo owner that isn't planning on shelling out 10k out for a new design boat anytime soon because all of a sudden new boats will appear that are lighter, easier to recover from a capsize, more comfortable to sail etc. because when they purchased their boat they thought they were getting a one design boat.

All for what making the boat slightly better. There is a reason the solo is the second most popular class in the country, it's design is a winning formula and people that own them accept it has its flaws in the knowledge they are all in the same boat.
Spot on 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NickA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 19 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by CT249

Originally posted by NickA

Ribbons and Pigs comes to mind.  

People don't buy solos because they are fast modern and "sexy"; they buy them because they are either too old to sail anything else or fancy winning a cup in a big fleet by beating lots of old folks.

Whereas you buy Javs because you fancy winning a cup in a small fleet by beating a few old folks?  :-)


Touche.  Excellent snarky reply to my snarky comment.  :¬)

The point of the (also overweight and old-fashioned) Javelin is certainly not winning cups (not in my case anyway), it's that it's fast and hard work and will chuck you in the water if you get it wrong.  A couple of three sail planing reaches linked by a well excecuted roll gybe leaves me high on adrenaline for days!  Without that thrill, may as well just sit at home and do big fleet tactical racing on SailX.  I'm sure there are foiling moth and 49er sailers who feel the same way about Javelins!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 8:04am
I wonder how much this change has actually come from ( some of) the builders.

The current Solo is very well built and lasts forever ( nearly)

Is a change of design the only way to increase the sale of new boats?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 9:30am
I think that the coffee table and transom construction are something that the builders recognize to be areas where cost can be taken out of the boat.  However the requirement for new tooling will be a bitter pill to swallow for the two or three smaller builders.  And not good for the two main builders while the NSCA procrastinates.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 9:37am
Actually its all a plot of the lizard people...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RTFM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 9:41am
Start a new NSCA called the 'Real' or 'Classic' Solo CA, (CSCA) following the same/current Solo class rules, but add in that no hull/rig rules can be changed within x years, get it recognised by the RYA and we are good to go.... Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ColPrice2002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 6:54pm
The transom change would make the rudder/tiller easier to fit when rigging... At present, I have to feed the extension through the transom, then the tiller, followed by fitting the stock onto the pintle/gudgeon, then the retaining clip.
Dropping the rudder stock onto the pintle/gudgeon is much simpler, but this is not a reason to buy from one builder compared to another.

Similarly, the capping strip change would save a few shin bruises, but isn't sufficient to prefer one builder over another.

Some of the proposals are basically performance neutral, but others would affect the boat speed. Whether that's acceptable to the class membership - as opposed to the members at the AGM is a good question.

Colin


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ian.r.mcdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 19 at 8:39pm
If a competent experienced sailor was asked to find ten things to make the Solo easier and possibly faster to sail, they could all do it and probably agree on which things to change.

Surely that is not the point? There are 1000s of this one design racers and if you are a full on circuit sailor or a club sailor on a small tree lined pond, the rules are still the same.

Rudder changes? Fixed lightweight rudders next?

Take the centreboard capping off? Easier to tack and we are then going to pretend that the one design ethos is maintained against the original Holt design?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 19 at 5:47am
Originally posted by ian.r.mcdonald

If a competent experienced sailor was asked to find ten things to make the Solo easier and possibly faster to sail, they could all do it and probably agree on which things to change.

Surely that is not the point? There are 1000s of this one design racers and if you are a full on circuit sailor or a club sailor on a small tree lined pond, the rules are still the same.

Rudder changes? Fixed lightweight rudders next?

Take the centreboard capping off? Easier to tack and we are then going to pretend that the one design ethos is maintained against the original Holt design?
Spot on, 

Nothing that the Solo or any other originally wood one design can do to will bring it close to a design today so keep to the spirit of the original and use corrects to keep older boats competitive as they gain a few pounds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 19 at 8:30am
Originally posted by stonefish

These proposed changes are going to be very bad for the class, hardly anyone is going to win with this.

You will piss off the builders because no one is going to buy a new solo anytime soon knowing a new version is coming in a year or so and then more potential changes after that. 

You will piss off the owners that have just purchased new boats because all of a sudden their resale value has dramatically dropped because it's not a new design boat.

You will piss off the owners of perfectly competitive older boats that have no correctors or have removed some to keep it on weight because new boats will come in at 3kg less.

You will piss off any solo owner that isn't planning on shelling out 10k out for a new design boat anytime soon because all of a sudden new boats will appear that are lighter, easier to recover from a capsize, more comfortable to sail etc. because when they purchased their boat they thought they were getting a one design boat.

All for what making the boat slightly better. There is a reason the solo is the second most popular class in the country, it's design is a winning formula and people that own them accept it has its flaws in the knowledge they are all in the same boat.

In my experience the current generation of FRP boats are considerably quicker than the more traditional boats. Combine that with a sail development and the 'optimised' hulls means the boat is a fair bit quicker that the PY would suggest.

The suggested changes my exacerbate that a little more. However with so many older boats still racing at club level week in, week out the PY wont catch up. The Fireball PY is only just starting to level out following the 'wide bow' revolution nearly 20 years ago.
Paul
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