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I14 Worlds Stitch-up

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    Posted: 19 Feb 05 at 11:09pm

It will be interesting to hear the full story but on the face of it this seems like a funny outcome.

http://www.takapunaboating.org.nz/Business/productsbusiness/ productFlash.htm

Morrison lost the worlds through someone elses actions; seems very convienient for the aussie boat to sail round with Richardson and then protest ...

regards,

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 12:14am

from the link :

A subsequent protest by Irwin (AUS 631) against the tactics used by GBR 1516 was upheld by the International Jury.

Would be interesting to find out what GBR1516 was charged with, if they broke the rules, they get binned, but how could you move AUS631 up to 10th(up 4 places).  Don't understand this at all. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 12:15am

Agreed - looks well fishy

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 6:44am
AIUI what seems to have happened was that the second RMW team boat slowed down halfway up last beat, went and found the AUS boat and slapped a real tight team racing cover on them. They claimed they were doing this because if they managed to really take the AUS boat far enough down the fleet they could get an overall place off them. The Aussies claimed they were doing it because if the UK boat got them down to 14th or worst their team mates would win the Championships.

The Aussies protested (inter alia) under Rule 2, because you're not allowed to team race. Ruile two reads.

"2 FAIR SAILING
A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles have been violated. A disqualification under this rule shall not be
excluded from the boat’s series score."

The jury decided that they found it hard to believe that the UK boat sailing the Aus down the fleet was doing it to try and get an overall place off them because (1) they'd have had to slow them down by 8 minutes with only 9 minutes of the race left to do it and (2) there was someone ahead of them that they could (and they did) lose an overall place to while they were doing it so actually gain nothing. So the UK boat copped a DND - Disqualification none discardable. Controversial but not a totally unreasonable decision I think.

OK, so now we come to the redress claim.

Rule 62.1 reads in part:-

62.1 A request for redress or a protest committee’s decision to consider redress shall be based on a claim or possibility that a boat’s score in a race or series has, through no fault of her own, been made significantly
worse by [snip]
(d) a boat against which a penalty has been imposed under rule 2[snip]

Given the jury had just found that the Aus boat had been sailed down the fleet illegally in breach of rule 2 then it was the correct decision to give them some kind of redress. They made a time/place estimate rather than give average points, which would have done the Aussies rather more good. That part of it is pretty much uncontroversial.

It seems pretty certain that at that stage the only way the AUS guys could lose first overall was if someone sailed them down the fleet - and they then got sailed down the fleet by the winners' team mates who had stopped and waited for them in order to do it, and probably lost a place overall by doing so. It certainly would have looked suspicious!



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Scooby_simon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Agreed - looks well fishy

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

It will be interesting to hear the full story but on the face of it this seems like a funny outcome.

http://www.takapunaboating.org.nz/Business/productsbusiness/ productFlash.htm

Morrison lost the worlds through someone elses actions; seems very convienient for the aussie boat to sail round with Richardson and then protest ...

regards,

Rick




Isn't it strange.....every time a Pom gets blown, then it's due a nasty rotten foreign type cheating and getting the protest committee to believe their story. Amazing.....

Don't you think that perhaps a jury there at the time had more information and evidence on which to base their decision than you do?


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Much FWB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 5:29pm
If that is what Al and Ian were doing in the final race then does a Rule 2
disqualification act as sufficient penalty or is there a case for opening a
rule 69 hearing?

Case 34: Hindering another boat may be a breach of rule 2 and the basis
for action under Rule 69.1

I'm not sure of any other case where a Rule 2 protest has been won
without a Part 2 rule being broken - Opens up quite a can of worms with
regard IJs powers to influence boat tactics when part 2 rules are not being
broken. Floodgates could well be opened here.

Case 78: A boat does not break rule 2 by slowing another boats progress
in a race, provided that this tactic is intended to benefit her own series
result and that in using it she does not intentionally break a rule.

That is where Ian's comment of saying that if they'd succeeded in
dropping the Aussies down to 26 or whatever then they would not have
been lobbed, despite the fact it may also have benefitted Steve and Ben.

The Jury had to be convinced that at the time it was happening, Al and Ian
were slowing the Bazzas down in order for the others to win. It isn't
enough that the Jury, with the benefit of hindsight, considered their
actions to have brought about this result. If the brits were trying to slow
them down by nine minutes, and failed, but their intentions at the time
were to try and slow them down by nine minutes, then the Jury is acting
outside its scope and the decision is wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 7:01pm

Chris 249 - I'm not Aussie bashing just saying that it is a funny outcome.

None of us have all the facts it's just speculation but as the above post states no rules in part 2 seem to have been broken so it is a very VERY subjective call for the Jury.

Depsite both boats being TEAM RMW I don't believe there was any team racing going on ...

It will be interesting to hear the full story if it ever comes out ...

Rick

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 7:06pm

Read the other posts about this on the forum section for racing rules. The jury thought they were cheating and reading the evidence it looks like they were. there was also a witness to this incident - a Brit in the form of Paul Brotherton.

Sorry to say it but this looks like a professional foul as stated in that thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 05 at 7:09pm

Just read a resonably detailed report "on another site" with quotes from Barker.

Looks a very subjective decision to me ...

Rick

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