Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rules Query |
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limey ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 21 Dec 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 46 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 19 Feb 08 at 6:02pm |
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A starboard tack boat (Boat A) is sitting on the line with a minute to go before the start. Another starboard tack boat(Boat B) sails into the gap below and to leeward of Boat A and naturally hails boat A to keep clear. But boat A is stationary and he knows that sheeting in to avoid boat B will initially create sideways movement and inevitable contact with boat B. But whilst stationary he cannot head up or respond to boat Bs luffing. In other words hes damned if he does and damned if he doesnt. There is finally contact between the two boats; who is in the wrong and who is in the right?? As the winward boat A must keep clear of B. But B must also allow A sufficient time to respond. In this scenario A cannot repond due to the proximity of the two boats and the absence of any forward motion. Answers please ??? |
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Calum_Reid ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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A should do everything he can to keep clear and if contact still occours then B did not give room to keep clear.
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Yes but... I think I'd want very good evidence that A couldn't have kept clear by taking action earlier. A lot would depend on how close they were when B moved in. And of course if I found that A was moving backward rather than stationary...
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giraffe ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 10 May 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 148 |
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A must be able to prove that he tried to keep clear when he became the keep clear boat B must give a keep clear boat opportunity to keep clear Note the order of these comments If A does not do anything, then it is pretty evident that you dont consider the second paragraph. A must do something to try and keep clear. Anything. Then the onus shifts to B to some extent. Doing nothing is not an option for A. A decided to park itself where it did and must now deal with the conseqeunces. |
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29er310 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Apr 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 174 |
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A does not have to give way until there is an overlap so there does not have to be any preventative action.
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International 14 GBR1485 29er 310 for sale Laser 138462 for sale Optimist 4626 For sale |
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Chas 505 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 Dec 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 119 |
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Chas |
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Life is too short.
Work Hard; Play Hard; Sail a 505 |
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andymck ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 15 Dec 06 Location: Stamford Online Status: Offline Posts: 397 |
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Boat A is entitled to room, even to bear away and gain steerage way, and this must be given. In an umpired race boat B would be chucked as long as A started to respond as soon as the overlap was established. B might argue that if A did nothing she would have kept clear, but i think it would be hard to persuade the jury. If you end up being the boat A, the best thing to have done was to have defended the space, but if you were caught out the best thing to do is to make sure all the boats around are looking, and count very aloud the seconds till you hit, which of course you will, best to keep it under 5, then push off for the best start, ruining bargers day and no way you can possibly lose the protest, unless visiting a particularly malignant club. As boat B just make sure you have enough room to leeward, in which to drop into, while making sure boat A remains stalled, but you must keep clear of him, if no space below, you could be in trouble, and unless boat A is a muppet in the protest room. Won a cracking one in a match race because of this, because B remained above close hauled after the gun had gone. They were gutted! having thought they had got us bang to rights. Andy |
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Andy Mck
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29er310 ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Apr 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 174 |
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I wouldnt reccommend pushing off the other boat after you have collided, I once got black flagged for that in a team race eventhough the guy who hit me stop me dead.
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International 14 GBR1485 29er 310 for sale Laser 138462 for sale Optimist 4626 For sale |
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Calum_Reid ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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Recently I've noticed umpires giving alot more decisions in favour of the windward boat when the leward boat came in to close to them meaning that even if the leward boat doesnt luff when the windward boat tries to keep clear he cant.
If someone comes in right next to your leward quarter on a line so long as you make an effort to keep clear (personaly i would slam my rudder down and try to sheet on) then if there is contact i think a leward boat would be lucky to win a protest. But then maybe i spend to much time team and match racing? |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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If the evidence came up that W had "pushed off for the best start and ruined bargers day" then I'd be giving very serious consideration to giving W a DND under rule 2, even if I also DSQd L for not giving room, and at very least DSQ W under 42.1. 42.3.g doesn't seem to me to allow propulsion as opposes to getting clear, and 64.1b would not in my opinion exonerate W. And if the PC found that W had been given enough room, but hadn't taken it and had still breached rule 2 by pushing themselves forward and L back then L might be entitled to redress... |
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